Pentax FF: Less MP more Image Quality ?
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 13:16
No. This is for too niche a market, largely videographers I suspect. There will be an expectation of at least 24mp for a general purpose ff model.
You can see some of my photos here if you are so inclined
You can see some of my photos here if you are so inclined
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 13:32
Agreed, definitely no. 24 MP is now easily attainable on APS-C and FF, possibly even more. There's no way a 12MP FF camera could sell enough for Pentax to sustain it.
Pentax look to high quality in a large market, albeit it with a modest market share, but a share that is no doubt growing.
Best regards, John
Pentax look to high quality in a large market, albeit it with a modest market share, but a share that is no doubt growing.
Best regards, John
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 13:46
No. I don't think it matters whether a 12MP camera would have better IQ - they wouldn't sell (m)any.
Andrew
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Andrew
Flickr photostream
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 13:54
I want a mirror-less camera (still and 4k video) that takes a standard SSD hard drive, has wi-fi connectivity and full tethering and live view via IOS/android device, a 50 mp medium format sensor, and interchangeable lens mount.
is that too much to ask?
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
is that too much to ask?
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 13:57
Although I agree with the sentiment (I rarely need the resolution of my K20D, and in reality that of my old K10D was more than enough for my purposes), I'm sad to say that commercially I don't think it is viable. Everyone seems to want a volume control that goes to 11... 
Best wishes, Kris.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.
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Best wishes, Kris.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.
My website
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 14:03
andrewk wrote:
No. I don't think it matters whether a 12MP camera would have better IQ - they wouldn't sell (m)any.
Andrew
No. I don't think it matters whether a 12MP camera would have better IQ - they wouldn't sell (m)any.
Andrew
You're probably right there's still a huge amount of photographers driven by MP rather than IQ. But don't forget the Nikon D4 is still only 16MP and puts quality over MP. Not everyone thinks more MP = better
Calling 12MP as being too niche when only a few years ago that was the most you could have is an interesting comment. Give it 10 years and 36MP will be "too niche" under that logic
Anyway there's nothing wrong with 'niche', sometimes being all things to everyone isn't he best way to go. The Pentax Q and K-01 were niche.
Maybe Pentax would score in the FF arena by being Niche.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 14:09
And you hammered them for being niche, so no number of Smeggypants in the market would have helped to sell any K-01 or Q cameras.....or are you now arguing they were a success for you? 
But yes, it's only a matter of time before 36 MP might be considered a bit passé for the modern photographer....
Best regards, John
But yes, it's only a matter of time before 36 MP might be considered a bit passé for the modern photographer....
Best regards, John
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 14:16
johnriley wrote:
And you hammered them for being niche, so no number of Smeggypants in the market would have helped to sell any K-01 or Q cameras.....or are you now arguing they were a success for you?
But yes, it's only a matter of time before 36 MP might be considered a bit passé for the modern photographer....
And you hammered them for being niche, so no number of Smeggypants in the market would have helped to sell any K-01 or Q cameras.....or are you now arguing they were a success for you?
But yes, it's only a matter of time before 36 MP might be considered a bit passé for the modern photographer....
No I didn't.
My criticisms of the Q was it's initial price and sensor size.
My criticisms of the K-01 was it's uglyness.
0 points
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Last Edited by Smeggypants on 07/04/2014 - 14:18
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 14:25
Well, nobody is trying to score points, but I remember what you said at the time very well. Still, never mind, it's not worth looking at in detail.
Best regards, John
Best regards, John
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 15:01
Unfortunately, although you are correct in what you are saying Smeggy, the average Joe will see a Canikon with gazzillions of megapixels on the shelf alongside a Pentax with a modest but ample 12 or 16 MP and he's going to buy the Canikon. It would be commercial suicide, sadly, for Pentax to persue that path and a shot in the foot. Pentax need sales and that route is not going to get them I'm afraid. 
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"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" (John Lennon)
My Flickr link
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" (John Lennon)
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 15:17
SteveEveritt wrote:
Unfortunately, although you are correct in what you are saying Smeggy, the average Joe will see a Canikon with gazzillions of megapixels on the shelf alongside a Pentax with a modest but ample 12 or 16 MP and he's going to buy the Canikon. It would be commercial suicide, sadly, for Pentax to persue that path and a shot in the foot. Pentax need sales and that route is not going to get them I'm afraid.
Unfortunately, although you are correct in what you are saying Smeggy, the average Joe will see a Canikon with gazzillions of megapixels on the shelf alongside a Pentax with a modest but ample 12 or 16 MP and he's going to buy the Canikon. It would be commercial suicide, sadly, for Pentax to persue that path and a shot in the foot. Pentax need sales and that route is not going to get them I'm afraid.
I couldn't agree more in terms of your general snapper, but I would like to think that pro and serious amateurs could see beyond the MP vortex.
For example, surely nobody on this forum ( a mixture of pro's and serious amateurs ) would claim more MPs is better and place that at the top of their DSLR purchasing tick boxes at the expense of IQ?
Aside from 2nd guessing the purchasing interests of others, would you buy a DSLR with less MP and better IQ?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 15:23
johnriley wrote:
Well, nobody is trying to score points, but I remember what you said at the time very well. Still, never mind, it's not worth looking at in detail.
Well, nobody is trying to score points, but I remember what you said at the time very well. Still, never mind, it's not worth looking at in detail.
Then you'll also vividly remember my support for Pentax releasing a FF model precisely because it was niche on the basis that even if it wasn't hugely profitable itself it would be a potential boost for lower priced Pentax models if people saw more pros using Pentax gear. I've always had this view even at a time when FF didn't really interest me.
Many people opposed Pentax releasing a FF DSLR on the basis that they couldn't compete with Canon and Nikon.
My criticisms of the Q and K-01 were are as listed in the previous post
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
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Posted 07/04/2014 - 16:58
Perhaps I am going off topic, but to me the K-01 is a stunningly beautiful camera. Smeggy and others consider it ugly. That makes it a niche market camera, and you'll find me deeply recessed in that same niche.
Pentax could, like Sony, bring out a range of cameras based on different sensors and using existing and updated bodies. I picture a choice of 12mp 16mp, 24 mp, 40mp and 50mp APC FF and MF sensors in a bodies based on Q, k-01(+evf), K-7/5/3, Z-1 and 645D, and yes including Smeggy's 12mp FF. It may all sound bonkers, but the principle is to mix and match components to meet the many different niches which we inhabit. Surely not much more difficult that offering a range of 120 colour variations for the K50 and Q bodies.
I mean, Pentax itself is nothing if not a niche brand - it is just a case of extending the concept. I do fancy a 40mp sensor in a Q (just like the one in my phone) as much as a 12mp MF sensor in my 645N or some such other combination.
Pentax could, like Sony, bring out a range of cameras based on different sensors and using existing and updated bodies. I picture a choice of 12mp 16mp, 24 mp, 40mp and 50mp APC FF and MF sensors in a bodies based on Q, k-01(+evf), K-7/5/3, Z-1 and 645D, and yes including Smeggy's 12mp FF. It may all sound bonkers, but the principle is to mix and match components to meet the many different niches which we inhabit. Surely not much more difficult that offering a range of 120 colour variations for the K50 and Q bodies.
I mean, Pentax itself is nothing if not a niche brand - it is just a case of extending the concept. I do fancy a 40mp sensor in a Q (just like the one in my phone) as much as a 12mp MF sensor in my 645N or some such other combination.
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Smeggypants
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Now that there's proof of the existence of a 12MP Full Frame sensor with a good high ISO range ( meaning nice DR in the lower ranges too ), should Pentax go down the more sensible ( IMO ) route of ditching the vortex of the MP race and concentrate on IQ instead?
I for one would welcome it. I've no interest in 24MP, even 16MP is overkill. I was quite happy with the 3872 x 2592 (10MP) output of my old PentaxK10D
.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283