Off camera flash


philstaff

Link Posted 26/03/2013 - 13:11
Tried this today but kept getting the hard shadow light on the wall I persume this is caused by the cameras flash which is needed to triger the flash off camera. Is there a way to prevent this as I tried bouncing the flash off walls and celling but got the same result.





pic 1 is off camera bounced off the wall

pic 2 on camera flash bounced off celling.

Regards Ian

DOIK

Link Posted 26/03/2013 - 13:53
Have a look here LINK

John
My Photobucket

Fletcher8

Link Posted 26/03/2013 - 14:11
you need to modify and diffuse the flash. Below is a great link to help you get started.

http://strobist.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/lighting-101.html
Fletcher8.

DaveHolmes

Link Posted 26/03/2013 - 16:25
philstaff wrote:
Tried this today but kept getting the hard shadow light on the wall I persume this is caused by the cameras flash which is needed to triger the flash off camera. Is there a way to prevent this as I tried bouncing the flash off walls and celling but got the same result.

If I'm reading this correctly you're using the on-board flash to trigger a second 'off-camera' flash gun...

For a better result buy a radio trigger (Cactus or Yongnuo perhaps... There are literally dozens of options...) and forget about the on-board flash...

If you need to use the on-board flash - try and modify or control it... A film canister (cut a flash head sized hole in the side) popped on top can help some... Even a piece of black card can do wonders (as eith a snoot or a block) but you'll need to make sure the sensor on the 2nd flash 'sees' its light...

Your second shot is ok but looks a tad underexposed - remember that aperture controls flash exposure - open her up a little when bouncing light to a source (the ceiling in this case) which is further away...

NB: when I say 'source' I mean the surface you bounce onto ie: wall or ceiling rarther than the actual flashgun... Your making the source bigger than the flashhead but not increasing the amount of light (sort of reducing it - or at least slowing its travel - as I understand it)which naturally softens the emited light...

Zack Arias explains it much better than me in the first OneLight video (if you can find it!!)

Hope you find at least a little bit helpful - I've bamboozled my own brain - Not use my flashes in a few months...

Dave
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

BMurray

Link Posted 26/03/2013 - 20:36
i shot my first wedding on friday and it was also the first time i had used off camera flash (i have a crappy metz 24 thing which was taking around 7 seconds to reset between shots) i bought a radio trigger and diffuser and i am really pleased with my results, one trick i learned by accident was actually bouncing the flash off myself, i was wearing a black jumper and while trying to think of ways to make my arm about 3 feet longer i pulled the flash in closer and the camera went off while i pointed into the jumper and the results were surprisingly good. i got my radio trigger kit from amazon and it was disgustingly cheap but it works like a charm, i eventually got sick of holding the flash off camera and ended up with my diffuser over the on camera flash which also gave acceptable shots (by this time i was only shooting random party scenes so clarity was not an issue).
B Murray

philstaff

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 11:44
DOIK wrote:
Have a look here LINK

John

Thanks for the help guys very helpful info. I have looked at the training video and step by step worked through the protocol but the in camera flash still fires even after following the guide lines in the video. I am using the Kr and not the K 5 as used in the video so may be that is the problem. Dave I will check out radio triggers asp thank you.

Regards Ian

DOIK

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 12:41
Ian, it should work.
Custom settings 3 option 17 set to 2.
It seems the flash will still fire to operate the remote one but will not influence the exposure.
John
My Photobucket

Don

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 12:59
moveyour subject away from the back ground shoot from a little further back with a longer lens to maintain a similar feild of view, stop it down an extra stop to depth of feild and pull the background closer in the final image.... let the shadows fall on the floor... problem solved.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.

philstaff

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 16:32
DOIK wrote:
Ian, it should work.
Custom settings 3 option 17 set to 2.
It seems the flash will still fire to operate the remote one but will not influence the exposure.
John

Hi John yes the flash does fire in option 17 2 but in the training video the flash does not fire may be it's down to the different models of camera. Thanks Don yes will try that option as well.

Ian

DaveHolmes

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 16:44
Could just be that the video didn't capture the preflash of the on-board flash due to a low framerate... (?)
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

punkrockemo

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 21:59
Im interested to learn of camera flash too.

Using the K30 I had similar problem to Ian, in option 2 the on camera flash fired. I chaged it to mode one and the off camera flash did not fire which is the opposite to what should of happened.

MarkTaylor

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 23:09
I believe the custom option you're referring to is using the built-in flash to trigger an external flash in control mode (option 2) as opposed to master mode (option 1). Using option 2 the built-in flash fires to trigger the external flash, but is timed to go off before the shutter curtain opens so it has no effect on your exposure. It works perfectly well on the K-5 and K-5 II. I use it often when I can't be bothered setting up the Cactus v5 radio triggers.
My Flickr Pentax K-5 K-5 II Sigma 8-16mm F/4.5-5.6 DC HSM Tamron SP AF 17-50mm F/2.8 XR Di II LD ASL SMC Pentax-DA* 50-135mm F/2.8 ED [IF] SDM SMC Pentax-DA 55-300mm F/4-5.8 ED SMC Pentax-DA 18-135mm F/3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] WR Vivitar 100mm F/3.5 Macro AF Metz Mecablitz 58 AF-2

InFESTation

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 23:10
Not having a pentax flash when you set the channels for the wireless trigger is there 2 way communication? thinking this as disabling the actual flash may be related to communication with the flash.
Pint o' rough & a game o' darts anyone

DaveHolmes

Link Posted 27/03/2013 - 23:22
MarkTaylor wrote:
I believe the custom option you're referring to is using the built-in flash to trigger an external flash in control mode (option 2) as opposed to master mode (option 1). Using option 2 the built-in flash fires to trigger the external flash, but is timed to go off before the shutter curtain opens so it has no effect on your exposure. It works perfectly well on the K-5 and K-5 II. I use it often when I can't be bothered setting up the Cactus v5 radio triggers.

This makes sense as it's often refered to as 'pre-flash'
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

philstaff

Link Posted 28/03/2013 - 10:06
MarkTaylor wrote:
I believe the custom option you're referring to is using the built-in flash to trigger an external flash in control mode (option 2) as opposed to master mode (option 1). Using option 2 the built-in flash fires to trigger the external flash, but is timed to go off before the shutter curtain opens so it has no effect on your exposure. It works perfectly well on the K-5 and K-5 II. I use it often when I can't be bothered setting up the Cactus v5 radio triggers.

I hear what your saying but how do you explain the hard shadow in pic 1 I believe it was because of the straight direction flash of the inbuilt unit on the camera before trigering the main off camera flash unit.

Regards Ian
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