No more Pentax for me!...

I will not buy another Pentax Dslr again... Unless of course, they make a Full frame one. I love Pentax equipment as much as anyone in this little community.. Except perhaps John, who I think, if cut in half, would have 'Pentax' written through the length of his body, like a stick of Blackpool rock.
I have my istD, which I love. It does me nicely. I have never wanted to upgrade to a K10 or K20... Or even a K7. They do not interest me in the slightest bit. They are not different enough to my D, to make me want one. I really don't get all the excitement about the K5. It seems to be the same as the K7, with a few minor improvements.
No thanks. - The only thing that will get me to but a new Dslr, will be a big sensor. If there 'aint gonna be one from Pentax, then I'll do without.

My next camera purchase, is likely to be a Panasonic G1. It has a piddly little sensor, about the size of your thumb nail. Useless for a Dslr, But perfect for an interchangeable lens compact. In fact, I think Olympus made a big mistake using that sensor size for Dslrs. They should keep it for Micro four thirds cameras and make all their future SLRs FF.
This brings me to the conclusion that the APS sized sensor was a mistake and has no real purpose.
FF for SLRs and Micro four thirds for compacts. Thats all that is needed. Each size sensor is perfect for it's application. APS is a compromise that complicated things and left a lot of people dissatisfied.. With Pentax, in particular.
So, for me, it's a big sensor, and a little sensor, in the appropriate cameras... And nothing in between.

Well good luck Mowog, i hope you'll find what you're looking for.
The 135format issue for Pentax has been done to dead so no need to go over that again.

Will we count the cost of always wanting more
Never satisfied with what we had before

Oh, no! - I don't want to start up another FF thread. Yes, It has been done to death.

I am just thinking that Digital photography is no longer in it's infancy.
Perhaps now would be a good time for all the manufacturers to agree on a standard for camera sensors. Just two, for high end cameras. FF for SLRs and Micro four thirds for changeable lens compacts. To this could be added tiny sensors for cheap point and shoot compacts, and at the other end of the extreme, a large format sensor that Pentax have taken up. APS could be allowed to die. It was never a good idea.

I was looking at the Samsung NX10, the other day. Which is what got me thinking about this. It's a great looking camera. Tiny, with lots of great features. Interchangeable lenses. Electronic viewfinder etc. But... It has one fatal flaw. An APS sized sensor. People that like that sensor, can buy an SLR that is not much bigger or more expensive. People that want a small but quality compact that can take other lenses, will buy a Panasonic or Olympus Micro four thirds. The Samsung cannot use C mount lenses because the sensor is too big, and legacy lenses will suffer the crop factor. It is neither fish nor fowl.

When I saw this thread I thought 'Here we go again. Another 'the grass is always greener' defector.' Time and again I read or hear the same thing; 'Must have FF. Pentax don't make FF, therefore Pentax bad, Canikon good'.

One day, I hope, someone will present a cogent reason for why FF is better. Until then I'll live with the belief that it's the person holding the camera that's important, not the camera itself.

So 'goodbye' Mowog. May you and your FF live happily ever after.

Me, I'm just going to keep on trying to take better pictures with what I've got and not look for excuses!

I make the picture; the camera just does what I 'tell' it to.

Goodbye!?? - I'm not going anywhere, matey!
Just saying that I won't buy another Pentax Dslr, unless...

Did you actually read his initial post?

Having thought more about this, I arrive at the depressing conclusion that I will probably never buy another Pentax product again. The company simply doesn't make anything I want to buy. The only thing I want, they seem unlikely to make. Others make it, but I won't buy theirs because I would have to buy lots of new and very expensive lenses. I will do without one, then.
Even second hand has lost me. I have several Spotmatics, a complete set of the K series and even a few old rough ones, for painting silly colours. I don't want or need any more Pentax film cameras. As for lenses... I have lost count of the number I have. Certainly don't need any more.
I will buy a new changeable lens compact. Sadly Pentax don't make one. Others do, and it will take my existing lenses, and C mount lenses. It will even take those stupid little Pentax 110 lenses. Not that I'd want one of those!

I will of course continue to use and enjoy my existing Pentax equipment. It's just a pity that this company no longer makes anything that I want to buy.

Good luck with your new camera whatever it will be,

Be carefull what you wish for, I yearned after a FF camera for ages then got my 5D.

After about a month of using it i've now gone back to APS and bought a GX-20 which i'm perfectly happy with it.

After using FF for a while I realised there is no advantage for me.

I am a little confused by you post mowog.

What would a full frame camera give you, that your istD doesn't?

It certainly cant be image quality, because youv'e already stated there would have been no benefit upgrading to a subsequent model.

I imagine, mowog, that you have a pressing need to make enormous enlargements or to make extensive and regular use of very wide angle lenses. Full frame would certainly be of benefit in these cases.

APS-C has become so accomplished that it's supposed to be hard to see the difference in "normal" sized prints and impossible on a computer screen. I've just read an article in a magazine which makes a direct comparison between Canon's 5D mark II and a 7D. It concluded that most photographers would be better off with the 7D, which is interesting.

You'd certainly need very good quality lenses as the large sensor is supposed to show up any deficiencies. More expense!

back in the medium format film days... there came along a point where 35mm lenses had more resolving power than the best medium format lenses, and combined with film advances, pro 35 lenses and film were matching medium format for print quality up to 20x30........
to this day there are those that argue hassleblad prints were better than 35mm....

I used to crop images from my mz5 square when sending in to a certain mag that publishes me a few times...
their image requirements stated medium format only. They never once asked about my camera.

Sometimes the only real difference is: if you believe it's better, then it must be better.

I didn't mean this to turn into another FF thread. But It seems I need to explain why I want an FF camera.

It has nothing to do with image quality. The APS sensor is capable of that, way beyond my, and most people's abilities. Even if FF sensors gave slightly inferior image quality, I'd still want one.
I have a great many High quality Pentax and other makers prime lenses. All were designed for 36x24mm image area. I would like them to remain so on my digital SLR. I want my 50mm to be a 50mm, not a 75mm. I want my 200 to be 200mm, not 300mm. It's all about the crop factor. NOT QUALITY.
I think that's the reason why most people want an FF slr.
If I were starting from scratch, I would buy a Nikon FF. but I am not. I have spent twenty years collecting a couple of thousand quids worth of lovely Pentax lenses. So. If there is to be no Pentax FF, there will be no FF camera for me. I'll stick with my istD.

My original post was just a little lament that the company that pioneered so much in the field of photographic equipment... And who's products have given me so much photographic pleasure over the years, does not make anything that I want to buy, now.

Let us say no more.

Come on Guys - each to his own

Seems like fallacious logic to me, but hey it's your decision! Have fun

Mowog - the point that intrigues me is not so much your frustration with lack of FF Pentax but your comment that your next camera purchase is likely to be a Pansonic G1. My wife has a Lumix compact which is excellent, but I've never quite seen the appeal (or dare I say it, the purpose? :wink of the G1. Is it purely a size/convenience issue for you? Are the current Pentax DSLR range (even the KX or KR) really too cumbersome for you to want to lug around compared to a micro 4/3rds camera?

As ISO says, each to his own - though I think it is fair to say that many Canon, Nikon and Sony users, not just Pentaxians, would disagree with the conclusion that "the APS sized sensor was a mistake and has no real purpose".

Camera systems choices will always be very subjective of course - a shame that Pentax isn't doing it for you but good luck with your move in the 4/3rds direction.