New member pondering a new Pentax camera?


Grodgeman

Link Posted 09/04/2016 - 01:07
ReverendRobert wrote:
Greetings to you all as a Canuck currently living in Pennsylvania USA.
I have been of fan of Pentax cameras since the ME Super! Through the years I have picked up others such as Ist DS as well as the K10D, the Q and the K-01.
Looking now for a new Pentax any ideas? K3 or K3II? Wait for the K1?
Funds are an issue for me so I need to take that into account.
Any assistance would be most welcome.
RevRobert

The K-50 has all one needs. Including the possibility of using R6/AA batteries. Also have a K-3 which gives me little more except weight and is gathering dust nicely.
Last Edited by Grodgeman on 09/04/2016 - 01:10

McGregNi

Link Posted 09/04/2016 - 09:35
I think the K3 is a big step up from the K50. It's mostly about pairing the right camera to the intended photographer, their experience, and the degree to which they intend to exert direct control over the image capture.

The 'Flagship' Pentax models, apart from the more often shouted about features such as WR, battery grips, AA filterless, pixel-shift etc, also include extra dedicated controls for rapid access in dynamic situations (eg metering mode, focus mode, AF point select) as well as additional software, memory, custom functions etc (like User modes, choices for retained settings, selections for flash behaviour, AF arrays etc).

I think you get a lot more for the money.... The K1 looks certain to continue and even expand on this distinction, and ultimately will end up being even better value.

But the user has to consider whether they can access and utilise the features, if its something to learn about over time, if they have the patience and commitment ...... or whether in fact having less control and fewer decisions to take is the better way to go.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 09/04/2016 - 09:40

jemx99

Link Posted 09/04/2016 - 23:19
McGregNi wrote:
I think the K3 is a big step up from the K50. It's mostly about pairing the right camera to the intended photographer, their experience, and the degree to which they intend to exert direct control over the image capture.

The 'Flagship' Pentax models, apart from the more often shouted about features such as WR, battery grips, AA filterless, pixel-shift etc, also include extra dedicated controls for rapid access in dynamic situations (eg metering mode, focus mode, AF point select) as well as additional software, memory, custom functions etc (like User modes, choices for retained settings, selections for flash behaviour, AF arrays etc).

I think you get a lot more for the money.... The K1 looks certain to continue and even expand on this distinction, and ultimately will end up being even better value.

But the user has to consider whether they can access and utilise the features, if its something to learn about over time, if they have the patience and commitment ...... or whether in fact having less control and fewer decisions to take is the better way to go.

My opinion is less is more. As long as I have certain basics I'm happy. I tend to do a lot manually and sort on the computer.
Grodgeman makes a good point about weight too - certainly something for some people to take into consideration.

McGregNi

Link Posted 10/04/2016 - 21:40
Well I tend to think that 'more is more' . It's true that a number of features built into high end cameras these days may never have any practical use found for them by an owner.

For example, I have never used Composition Adjust (sensor shift), AF calibration or horizon correction, nor Tav or Sv modes! Nor the HDMI out and PC socket Probably never will. But they are built into the total package that is the K7, and I find that most of the other important features that help to capture the pictures I do use regularly.

If it wasn't the 'Flagship' model of its time then it wouldn't have those features. I bought it because I understood and appreciated those things .... That's where the 'classification' of user-type comes into it .

The key defining feature on our DSLRs that distinguishes the low/ mid. ranges from the high end is the inclusion or not of 'scene modes' on the main dial ('sports', 'portrait', 'night' etc etc)...... Those modes are there because Pentax thinks that a high proportion of the models owners do not understand how cameras work and how to control the key image capture parameters, and how to optimise an exposure.

What they may not have realised is that a good number of that same type of user will in fact buy the high end models .... And when they can't use them properly some will make the assumption that in fact the lower models are actually better ....
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 10/04/2016 - 21:59

jemx99

Link Posted 10/04/2016 - 21:45
I just wish my latest cameras would have a shake reduction on / off switch like my 1st DSLR the 100d super had!

McGregNi

Link Posted 10/04/2016 - 22:02
I've heard that one wished for before. I think the new development on the K1 with the extra control dial to select the specific parameter to be adjusted on the other dial is a great innovation.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

RobL

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 08:36
By now ReverendRobert must be getting very confused! McGregNi rather disparagingly refers to the scene modes which as someone new to digital I found useful, they modify colour and white balance as well as more obvious controls. I bought the K50 in order to get to grips with Digital SLR and these aspects I mentioned did not figure in 35mm cameras except in film selection. There is far more to take in when changing to digital than I anticipated and although I very rarely use scene modes now it is useful to see what settings get applied. Since I now shoot in RAW and have a rudimentary knowledge of processing they are less critical to get right when pressing the button. I see little point in encouraging someone new to digital to get the sort of camera a semi-professional enthusiast would opt for, especially as different models will be best suited to specific tasks: frame rate is important to sports photography for instance but not for landscape, and I have found my exploratory journey taking unexpected avenues so until now I wouldn't have been able to make an informed choice.

I have found the K50 to be a great camera with all the manual manipulation you could ask for, and capable of taking really sharp well rendered photos so as a learning tool and general all round camera is hard to beat. Contrary to McGregNi I use TAV (an exclusive Pentax feature I believe) almost as a default setting because by manually tuning the speed and aperture it also shows the effect on ISO at a given exposure, and it's a bit silly for people to criticise features just because they don't use them. I am now ready for a camera with other attributes but will keep the K50 as with it's light body and 18-55mm lens it is great for walking around with.

alfpics

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 09:15
I think on page 2 RevRobert says he has already made an acquisition - a K3
Andy

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 10:36
And there was me thinking that the scene modes were only for people who couldn't be bothered to read a photography book or to learn anything new .... So they're not just for people who don't know what aperture to set for portraits, or what ISO to use indoors with flash, or what sort of exposure time they'd need to freeze a vaulting horse ... ? So the scene modes actually do more than that ... They actually control the styling of the output as well ... ?

I never dismissed any features because I don't use them. My point there was that the high end models tend to automatically come loaded with the lot ...a lot of things to either take advantage of if you know how, to ignore if you don't ...or, more unfortunately, to mess things up for you and get in the way if they are having an effect and you don't know how to take control.

Auto ISO (and therefore Tav) is something that can either help or hinder, and again it's one of those things that trip up the unwary. I see many requests for help with flash photography from people (not just this forum) who insist on using auto-ISO and an automatic exposure mode for their flash work, and then get annoyed and frustrated when things don't go well. They want to blame the equipment and it's automation, when they are really being unrealistic about what is possible, and they are unwilling to learn how to place themselves, the human operator, at the centre and in full control of things.

Auto ISO usefulness probably depends on the capability of the camera .... The K7 has a relatively limited good range to use, so I'm unwilling to lose full control ..... Perhaps if I got a K5II, or K1, I might not worry so much, apart from flash when I think ISO should always be fixed.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 11/04/2016 - 10:37

richandfleur

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 12:21
I think you have to hand some control over to the computer at some stage, unless you are actively taking control of the lighting with external flashes.

Advances in metering and other automatic aides are the future. Focusing and metering are two areas where the computer can make judgements and calculations faster than we can.

Sensor tech gets better, but lately most of the advancements have been in non sensor areas as described above.

On my k-30 and k-s1 I have yet to be disappointed with the metering decisions. ISO wise I'm unhappy with the noise past 1600 and this is an example of where sensor tech hasn't improved that much over the last 5 years or so.

Below ISO 1600, 3200 at a pinch, I'm happy to let the camera pick a value that works for it. Be that in AV mode most often, or TAv when I want to control both aspects of the exposure.

The scene modes are a visible point of difference, but I'd put things like grip availability and external dials for metering modes up there as equally significant indicators. Of most interest to me are the burst buffer and FPS rates, which are the points of difference most driving me towards a higher spec line than I currently have.

My 2 cents? If coming into digital for the first time, go for a mid level APS-C option such as the K-S2.
Last Edited by richandfleur on 11/04/2016 - 12:22

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 14:50
Agreed on all that Richard .... It's good to be talking about some of these differences and choices for a change. So often it's easy on these forums to get the impression that the only important questions are about the sensor, very high ISO performance, resolution, and small differences in size and weight.

Look at all the fuss over an AA filter or lack of ... For the majority of users the significance of that choice is limited to how far they would be prepared to pull a sharpness slider across to the right!

Even though the automations are important now, the distinction between models comes in the finer tunings and user options to further control the automation. And it's the same old issue. ... Is the user knowledgeable enough to utilise and gain the advantage for themselves of the extra choices ....

Here's a question ..... The custom function, 'link AE to AF point/s' .... Now, can someone tell me what photographic or technical awareness would be actually required in order for a user to really, I mean really, make the right, informed, and effective choice for that setting in the range of photographic situations that might find themselves in ... ?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 11/04/2016 - 14:50

RobL

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 14:55
McGregNi I really respect your depth of knowledge and authority and you clearly know your way around the intricacies and capabilities of a modern camera so in no way is anything I said intended as a criticism, but before we flog this topic to death can i just make two points? If I was learning to drive I would wait until having mastered the basics before getting a Ferrari! And another motor related analogy: there is a button on my car which switches off all the computerised anti-skid controls if I want to be like a rally-driver; trust me, that button never gets pressed!
Last Edited by RobL on 11/04/2016 - 15:03

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 15:26
I like the car analogy Rob, and please lets keep flogging. .... That's what its all about, questioning and probing aspects of camera features, user control etc . I'd probably keep the 'anti-skid' on as well, but I'd ideally like to know what that means, and what might happen if I switched it off in particular situations

So, no, I agree that a beginner probably shouldn't try and learn in a Ferrari .... But, another question, if they did learn in say, a Vauxhall Corsa, would that mean that eventually they might need a Ferrari as they got better, faster, more in control .... ?

You didn't answer my question about the AE linked to AF choice ....

Oh, and I agree with you about my knowledge, authority and all that, absolutely right there . But it could spawn a whole new heated debate!
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 11/04/2016 - 15:32

johnriley

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 15:28
Quote:
Here's a question ..... The custom function, 'link AE to AF point/s' .... Now, can someone tell me what photographic or technical awareness would be actually required in order for a user to really, I mean really, make the right, informed, and effective choice for that setting in the range of photographic situations that might find themselves in ... ?

The camera tells you what this means, but the point in having it is to give the option to those who do understand it. Others can quite happily use the default and be none the wiser.
Best regards, John

McGregNi

Link Posted 11/04/2016 - 15:35
DING ! Is not the answer It's about the extent of background understanding that would actually be needed to fully appreciate and make an informed judgement about it in different situations. I'd suggest it's actually rather a great deal of knowledge.

But I accept that if unaware, then it can be ignored ... It just means another aspect of finer control not taken by the user.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 11/04/2016 - 15:37
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