Visit MPB Visit MPB Visit MPB

negatives to computer

grahamwalton
Posted 09/12/2010 - 19:11 Link
In my opinion scanned film images are nowhere near as good as high quality DSLR photos.

Back in the days when DSLRs were ultra high priced, film scanners were a good way to digitise film camera images. Many Photographic Society members used them.

I have a Canon FS4000 US Film Scanner which is very good. However, for club competition work, the results are now below par. The scans even at 4000 dpi struggle with detail in shadows and highlights.
Friendly Regards
Graham
Steve Chasey
Posted 09/12/2010 - 19:49 Link
Thoramay - difference between film and digital is like trying to compare a water colour painting with an oil painting. Different media, different feel.

Printers only work to max 300dpi - so at that level, the very finest detail won't get reproduced unless you have very heavily cropped the original image so you're only using a small part of it. Most of us will crop our images from time to time - if only to get rid of stray objects (people in my case ) or to bring a better balance to the final result. It's not usually a drastic crop.

Don't hide your Z1 in a draw - give it air time - shoot Fuji Velvia or Provia - the results are truly worth it. Because it costs every time you press the shutter, it will help with basic techniques because you spend that extra little bit of time thinking about then checking composition, balance etc.

If you prefer negative film, don't be put off from using Boot's processing offer - their disc have a High Res version of each image - can always give them a little sharpening in Lightroom. Works for me


Steve
In the Pack - Gripped K5 (SE),K7 & K20, Gripped MZ-S(SE)& MZ-S,DA10-17, DA12-24, DA14, DA*16-50, 50-135, 60-250 & 300mm; FA31mm/43mm/77mm Ltds; Sigma 8-16, 135-400 & 150-500
Half Backs: K10+BG,DA16-45, DA50-200
Backs: LXs,Super As and lots of A, M & K lenses
Impact Subs: 28mm Shift, K 135-600 (the Banahan of Pentax zooms ), 400-600 Reflex
Pwynnej
Posted 09/12/2010 - 20:32 Link
Steve Chasey wrote:
Don't hide your Z1 in a draw - give it air time - shoot Fuji Velvia or Provia - the results are truly worth it. Because it costs every time you press the shutter, it will help with basic techniques because you spend that extra little bit of time thinking about then checking composition, balance etc.


I'd second that....I took the Z-1 with me to Canada as well as my K20D... actually wherever I go, the Z-1 goes too, the bloody thing refuses to die....

The beauty of film is that it would train me to avoid relying on the LCD and the histogram to get the exposures right, as a result my single Velvia roll came back perfectly exposed because I had to think about exposure on every shot (really bright and contrasty light does affect metering)....

If the camera comes out only occasionally then getting a pro lab to scan the filns the same time as processing it might be a good move - but if the opportunity to grab a scanner like a Canscan FS2720 for around £100-150 comes along then I'd take the gamble if I were you...
Z-1p, K-1, P50
F50 1.7. SMC-FAs 24, 35, 50 1.4, 85, 135. HD-FA15-30, DFA24-70, D-FA*70-200. The SMC-FA Limited Trinity.
Metz 45 CL-4, AF500FTZ. AF540FGZ.
Some Mamiya and some Nikon
Edited by Pwynnej: 09/12/2010 - 20:37
thoramay
Posted 09/12/2010 - 21:21 Link
Thanks for all your comments. I had this idea that film would be simple and fun. Fun it is but no more than that. My fault for not checking it out first.
I am too well advanced in years to want to store photos for memories, memory being the worst of my health issues.
I now take photos to compete in the camera club. It is my motivation for being a photographer. If film leaves me at a disadvantage in competitions then it becomes pointless.
My K5 is a dream to use and just as much fun. Returning to the past can sometimes be rewarding and a reminder of how it used to be. Sadly, with film I am just remided on how it used to be. I'll leave it there, I think.
Regards Thoramay
ChrisA
Posted 09/12/2010 - 21:43 Link
thoramay wrote:
My K5 is a dream to use and just as much fun. Returning to the past can sometimes be rewarding and a reminder of how it used to be. Sadly, with film I am just remided on how it used to be. I'll leave it there, I think.

I think all this nostalgia is misplaced. We do what we can with the best we can afford, in the moment. No more, no less.

This changes over time, and the best we can afford gets better.

And the best that is achievable also gets better.

Ware, lest we don't keep up.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.
Hardgravity
Posted 09/12/2010 - 22:46 Link
It's not all nostalgia, some of us ENJOY shooting film.

The fact that you're limited to 12/24/36 frames on a film really focuses the mind and stops the machine gun approach that is all to common nowadays.

Most DSLR owners that chop and change brand because their camera "is useless" have never shot film, learnt about exposure, aperture and framing.They expect the latest whiz bang canikony super to make them into a star and it just wont do it!!

Rant over.

Sorry thoramay.
Cheers, HG

K110+DA40, K200+DA35, K3 and a bag of lenses, bodies and other bits.

Mustn't forget the Zenits, or folders, or...

PPG entries.
Dangermouse
Posted 09/12/2010 - 22:58 Link
Hardgravity wrote:
It's not all nostalgia, some of us ENJOY shooting film.


Exactly

I've got back into film since buying a DSLR, as I can now try all sorts of techniques on digital first to see if they work before using them on film. Film is an excuse to play with wonderfully made old cameras which require a little bit more effort from the user, and also to fiddle around with chemicals and developing tanks.
Matt

Shooting the Welsh Wilderness with K-m, KX, MX, ME Super and assorted lenses.
ChrisA
Posted 09/12/2010 - 23:06 Link
Hardgravity wrote:
It's not all nostalgia, some of us ENJOY shooting film.

The fact that you're limited to 12/24/36 frames on a film really focuses the mind and stops the machine gun approach that is all to common nowadays.

Most DSLR owners that chop and change brand because their camera "is useless" have never shot film, learnt about exposure, aperture and framing.They expect the latest whiz bang canikony super to make them into a star and it just wont do it!!

All true.

But that's not the point.

The point is that the vast majority of us can achieve results that are far superior, with less effort, at far less cost, now, with digital, than at any time in our film past.

There's nothing wrong at all in indulging ourselves once in a while. Enjoy away, and if the fiddling about with chemicals etc floats your boat, well, that's all to the good.

But it's not somehow better, except in a rather reverse-snobbish, "when-I-were-a-lad-we-'ad-it-tough" sense.

The notion that film was some kind of golden era, when we all took the time to create masterpieces from one end of the roll to the other is, for the most part, a fiction.

Doubtless there were some that did that, and they're probably doing the same thing with digital.

The fact of the matter is, that if the OP wants quality, he isn't going to get more of it by shooting film, and jumping through all the hoops you have to jump through, to get high quality scans, than persevering with digital, and making the most of that.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.
gartmore
Posted 10/12/2010 - 07:52 Link
Two options not previously mentioned:

Buy a second hand Minolta scanner, excellent results and certainly better than a budget scanner.

Use a pro lab rather than Boots.
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -
womble
Posted 10/12/2010 - 07:56 Link
I agree with dSLRs being able to create higher quality images than 35mm film. I am less sure that it is true with medium format and it is untrue with large format.

One question in my mind, however, is what film? Happy snaps junk 200 ASA colour print film, or Ilford Delta 100? Developed how? Printed how? Scanned how? Kodak Ektar 100, the new colour print film, is rumoured to have been developed with scanning in mind, for example. I also find it fascinating that one can buy software to mimic film images. Clearly there is something about film images that many enjoy.

I shoot some film because I enjoy it. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't care if it is better or worse than digital. Why do I use my Lubitel 2 instead of my Yashica Mat 124 G? Because it is basic and fiddly and fun and I have no idea what the results might be like. Why do I use a Pentax ES? Because it is a beautiful solid piece of machinery. Why am I eyeing up a FED-4? Because I'll never be able to afford a real Leica and I am curious what using a range-finder is like. The fact that I have sold my K10D and kept all my film cameras is that I have never developed the affection for the black blob that I have for my LX.

If your aim in life is to produce high quality images for photo competitions then the easiest route to technical quality is to shoot digital and Thoramay has probably made the right decision to not use her Z1. In my case, photography is fun and part of that fun is learning how to use old equipment. When photographing finds from my excavations I use my digital SLR and AF macro lens. When taking macro pictures for fun I may well use my M 100 with extension tubes or my LX with the magnifying viewfinder. I got my maths teacher to show me how to work a slide rule even though I had a calculator. Why? Because I wanted to know! One day I'll have my own darkroom. Why? Because I will enjoy it and it doesn't involve my laptop. Until, of course, I scan the prints to post on Flickr...!

We are all in this game for different reasons, some as a career, some as a way of relaxing and some for their egos. The choice of kit should be dictated by one's aims. I just hope enough of us find film fun to keep it going for a good few years yet.

K.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

My website
Hardgravity
Posted 10/12/2010 - 08:20 Link
Quote:
Kris said:

We are all in this game for different reasons, some as a career, some as a way of relaxing and some for their egos. The choice of kit should be dictated by one's aims. I just hope enough of us find film fun to keep it going for a good few years yet.

That's the point, if we all took pictures the same way with the same camera life would be very boring!

I use both film and digital for different reasons, digital is great on holiday and a damn sight cheaper than developing 20 colour films!

But for a little light relaxation one of my old 35mm or 120 roll film cameras provides me with what I want.
Cheers, HG

K110+DA40, K200+DA35, K3 and a bag of lenses, bodies and other bits.

Mustn't forget the Zenits, or folders, or...

PPG entries.
thoramay
Posted 10/12/2010 - 09:54 Link
Womble...you have it spot on..and if I were even twenty years younger I would be doing what you are doing. Film is fun and what I cut my teeth on, so to speak.

I have the Z1. I was given some film Fujicolour 200 ASA. It was fun and that healthy clunk of the shutter was a reassuring sound.

It is now only when I come to see the results that I find the technology to do so not only confusing but vastly expensive, and I regret that my energy levels simply cannot cope with the necessary changes.

Some of us look forward and embrace the new. Some of us in our old age look back and wonder how it has all changed and have regrets. It's where I am.

Lets see how the results turn out. Maybe I will get a surprise and will be tempted to follow some of the good advice on this Forum.

regards Thoramay.
grahamwalton
Posted 10/12/2010 - 12:37 Link
In my opinion, the ultimate quality prints from film cameras can be achieved by using colour slides and processing with Ilfochrome P3 papers and chemistry. Both the papers and chemistry are expensive, but the final result can be stunning.
Friendly Regards
Graham
womble
Posted 10/12/2010 - 13:43 Link
I agree. Ilfochrome (aka Cibachrome) gives gorgeous colour prints. I have started to shoot some 5x4 Fuji slides which will, if they are any good, get printed in that way.

K.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

My website
Pwynnej
Posted 10/12/2010 - 15:13 Link
gartmore wrote:
Two options not previously mentioned:

Buy a second hand Minolta scanner, excellent results and certainly better than a budget scanner.

Use a pro lab rather than Boots.

Keep up at the back I've mentioned both
Z-1p, K-1, P50
F50 1.7. SMC-FAs 24, 35, 50 1.4, 85, 135. HD-FA15-30, DFA24-70, D-FA*70-200. The SMC-FA Limited Trinity.
Metz 45 CL-4, AF500FTZ. AF540FGZ.
Some Mamiya and some Nikon

Add Comment

To leave a comment - Log in to Pentax User or create a new account.