Mobile Phone Cameras...
Posted 30/08/2023 - 17:38 - Helpful Comment
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Never....
I was told something long ago, and it's a mantra i use often...
Put mediocre lenses on a great camera, get mediocre images.
Put great lenses on a mediocre camera get great images.
Now look at your phone.
Your glass is the most important part of your set up.
For me phones are purely the new point and shoot camera. They will not supplant DSLR and newer type cameras. Also blow an image from your phone up to 100%, then do the same with an image from a good DSLR.
I was told something long ago, and it's a mantra i use often...
Put mediocre lenses on a great camera, get mediocre images.
Put great lenses on a mediocre camera get great images.
Now look at your phone.
Your glass is the most important part of your set up.
For me phones are purely the new point and shoot camera. They will not supplant DSLR and newer type cameras. Also blow an image from your phone up to 100%, then do the same with an image from a good DSLR.
The Legendary Terry Pratchett once said:
At the beggining there was nothing....
Which exploded....
At the beggining there was nothing....
Which exploded....
Posted 30/08/2023 - 17:42 - Helpful Comment
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HarisF1 wrote:
Have you seen your camera use declining as technology advances?
Have you seen your camera use declining as technology advances?
Not at all.
I've taken the odd photo of a meal in a pub or elsewhere on a phone but that's it.
People will use what they are happy with.
Best regards
Inspiration is rarer than a plate glass camera.....
Posted 30/08/2023 - 17:47 - Helpful Comment
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Not for me I'm afraid
I get the convenience aspect, and I can see the momentary attraction of a stunningly sharp and saturated snap to capture a quick moment - but I don't get anything like the same pleasure as I do with "creating" my image with a beautifully crafted DSLR. The viewfinder experience is so much better (IMO) with a Pentax DSLR, I can wander around the frame with my eye, re-composing and re-focusing to suit. My awareness of the background and the though process in selecting the right focal length and aperture is so satisfying (especially when I get it right) and the option to use lenses with ultra-thin depth of field if I wish make it the ideal tool for the job
But that's just my opinion
I get the convenience aspect, and I can see the momentary attraction of a stunningly sharp and saturated snap to capture a quick moment - but I don't get anything like the same pleasure as I do with "creating" my image with a beautifully crafted DSLR. The viewfinder experience is so much better (IMO) with a Pentax DSLR, I can wander around the frame with my eye, re-composing and re-focusing to suit. My awareness of the background and the though process in selecting the right focal length and aperture is so satisfying (especially when I get it right) and the option to use lenses with ultra-thin depth of field if I wish make it the ideal tool for the job
But that's just my opinion
LennyBloke
Posted 30/08/2023 - 19:09
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LennyBloke wrote:
Not for me I'm afraid
I get the convenience aspect, and I can see the momentary attraction of a stunningly sharp and saturated snap to capture a quick moment - but I don't get anything like the same pleasure as I do with "creating" my image with a beautifully crafted DSLR. The viewfinder experience is so much better (IMO) with a Pentax DSLR, I can wander around the frame with my eye, re-composing and re-focusing to suit. My awareness of the background and the though process in selecting the right focal length and aperture is so satisfying (especially when I get it right) and the option to use lenses with ultra-thin depth of field if I wish make it the ideal tool for the job
But that's just my opinion
Not for me I'm afraid
I get the convenience aspect, and I can see the momentary attraction of a stunningly sharp and saturated snap to capture a quick moment - but I don't get anything like the same pleasure as I do with "creating" my image with a beautifully crafted DSLR. The viewfinder experience is so much better (IMO) with a Pentax DSLR, I can wander around the frame with my eye, re-composing and re-focusing to suit. My awareness of the background and the though process in selecting the right focal length and aperture is so satisfying (especially when I get it right) and the option to use lenses with ultra-thin depth of field if I wish make it the ideal tool for the job
But that's just my opinion
+1
+2
+3 etc,etc... You get the picture. (No Pun intendeded.)
Couldn't agree with you more Lenny.
C.O.L.B.A.S victim
(Compulsive Obsessive Lens Buying Addiction Syndrome)
What you need are lenses, more lenses, bigger lenses, better lenses, faster lenses, vintage lenses and when you have these, your pictures will be perfect!
(Compulsive Obsessive Lens Buying Addiction Syndrome)
What you need are lenses, more lenses, bigger lenses, better lenses, faster lenses, vintage lenses and when you have these, your pictures will be perfect!
Posted 30/08/2023 - 19:26
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Not for me, either. In fact, I hardly use my phone as a phone, let alone a camera. It's used as a 2-factor authentication device, a controller for music streaming devices, a receiver for internet radio, etc. etc. but as a camera? No. The main competition for my DSLRs are my Q and Q-S1, which are my 'have it in a pocket just in case' cameras.
As for AI processing of images, as far as I can make out some of what is goes under the AI banner is a just product of the vivid imaginations of a marketing department (remember when 'nano' was the buzz word?). True AI enhancement of images can either make a nice-looking image that includes made-up features (so-called 'hallucinating') or it can stick to the data that really are present and produce an image that doesn't look wonderful or it can do some sort of compromise (explained in this semi-technical article if you're interested link ). What it can't do is accurately and reliably create something that isn't in the original data, it's only guessing.
So if you just want a nice-looking image of a nice-looking view and aren't concerned about accuracy of detail or want a flattering picture of your partner that hides their wrinkles and spots then a phone with built-in AI enhancement may be OK. But IMHO if you want an accurate, detailed representation or control over which wrinkles and spots are removed then a 'real' camera with human intelligence is the way to go.
And in spite of how good phone cameras have become, I'm still sceptical of their value for macro focus stacks and distant birds .
Steve
As for AI processing of images, as far as I can make out some of what is goes under the AI banner is a just product of the vivid imaginations of a marketing department (remember when 'nano' was the buzz word?). True AI enhancement of images can either make a nice-looking image that includes made-up features (so-called 'hallucinating') or it can stick to the data that really are present and produce an image that doesn't look wonderful or it can do some sort of compromise (explained in this semi-technical article if you're interested link ). What it can't do is accurately and reliably create something that isn't in the original data, it's only guessing.
So if you just want a nice-looking image of a nice-looking view and aren't concerned about accuracy of detail or want a flattering picture of your partner that hides their wrinkles and spots then a phone with built-in AI enhancement may be OK. But IMHO if you want an accurate, detailed representation or control over which wrinkles and spots are removed then a 'real' camera with human intelligence is the way to go.
And in spite of how good phone cameras have become, I'm still sceptical of their value for macro focus stacks and distant birds .
Steve
Posted 30/08/2023 - 19:47
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Phones have come along way and I think some can shoot raw files also but are expensive so I will stick with what I have for the moment.
AI is a double edged sword, in that it will manipulate surrounding pixels to blend, used sparingly it is a very powerful technology but I do not want my phone camera making those decisions for me, as I enjoy making those myself later on in the processing of a raw file on my monitor. I won't win any awards but its mine
It is an interesting debate non the less.
AI is a double edged sword, in that it will manipulate surrounding pixels to blend, used sparingly it is a very powerful technology but I do not want my phone camera making those decisions for me, as I enjoy making those myself later on in the processing of a raw file on my monitor. I won't win any awards but its mine
It is an interesting debate non the less.
Posted 30/08/2023 - 20:49
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I think part of the 'conundrum' was the huge difference in IQ between the phone and the Q-S1 in favour of the phone. It convinced me to sell the Q kit which hadn't been used much in the past year (also blame the GRiii for a bit of that!)
Having taken the new-to-me KP to a trip with family, I realised it was a hassle to keep lugging around an extra bag when I was dealing with the pram and kids. It was much easier to get slightly less genuine shots without the extra steps in RAW development.
I've still got my K-1 though, and I'm eventually going to put film through my MX... but until then I'll also be using my phone to take pictures of everyday cool stuff.
Having taken the new-to-me KP to a trip with family, I realised it was a hassle to keep lugging around an extra bag when I was dealing with the pram and kids. It was much easier to get slightly less genuine shots without the extra steps in RAW development.
I've still got my K-1 though, and I'm eventually going to put film through my MX... but until then I'll also be using my phone to take pictures of everyday cool stuff.
All the gear with no idea
Posted 30/08/2023 - 21:38 - Helpful Comment
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HarisF1 wrote:
I think part of the 'conundrum' was the huge difference in IQ between the phone and the Q-S1 in favour of the phone.
I think part of the 'conundrum' was the huge difference in IQ between the phone and the Q-S1 in favour of the phone.
It depends on your phone, of course. With my phone the balance is definitely the other way .
HarisF1 wrote:
it was a hassle to keep lugging around an extra bag when I was dealing with the pram and kids. It was much easier to get slightly less genuine shots without the extra steps in RAW development.
it was a hassle to keep lugging around an extra bag when I was dealing with the pram and kids. It was much easier to get slightly less genuine shots without the extra steps in RAW development.
Ah, those happy days when the hardware needed for little kids took priority and fun things for parents got whatever carrying capacity was left (if any). Mobile phones and RAW processing hadn't been invented, film SLRs weighed a lot less than DSLRs and you had to be patient and wait for the end of the holiday before you could see your photos. But you then had the delayed pleasure of forcing the family to spend an hour or so in darkness while you forced them to look at the slide show . Things have changed since then, but for better or worse... ??
Steve
Posted 31/08/2023 - 00:29 - Helpful Comment
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If you notice how much technology has changed in the mobile phone world in the last 15 or so years. the advances are imeasurable. The advances in the dslr world not so much. The better camera phones will now match any camera in the Pentax range, these days as a walkabout camera. Certainly surpass them in term of video quality. They certainly gain as a back pocket always on hand item. But possibly lose out in long lens capability and studio flash capability. Though I'm sure this tech will come in the future.
I think the toll bell has been ringing on Dslr's now for a while. As themajority of the youth of today arnt interested in Purchasing them.
I think the toll bell has been ringing on Dslr's now for a while. As themajority of the youth of today arnt interested in Purchasing them.
K-1Gripped K-1 ungripped K-5ii K7 Various lenses
Stuart..
Stuart..
Posted 31/08/2023 - 08:42 - Helpful Comment
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I use my phone, a Samsung with a 64MP main camera, when I need to and in some conditions it produces better images than a DSLR or mirrorless camera, even a FF one, at least when looking at the image at normal size on a normal screen. However, I know that looking more closely it won't stand up to scrutiny, plus it doesn't allow anything like the control I want over the image.
In general, people who don't know about photography or enjoy the process will get better images from a modern phone than they would from a badly-used ILC or even from a well-used compact. I have a little waterproof Panasonic and the image quality from my phone blows it away, but my phone isn't waterproof. I'm glad that people who don't use an ILC get better images these days than they would have ten or more years ago, but that isn't enough for me.
I've produced some images I'm very happy with on my last few phones but none of them has been a replacement for an ILC.
In general, people who don't know about photography or enjoy the process will get better images from a modern phone than they would from a badly-used ILC or even from a well-used compact. I have a little waterproof Panasonic and the image quality from my phone blows it away, but my phone isn't waterproof. I'm glad that people who don't use an ILC get better images these days than they would have ten or more years ago, but that isn't enough for me.
I've produced some images I'm very happy with on my last few phones but none of them has been a replacement for an ILC.
Pentax hybrid user - Digital K3, film 645 and 35mm SLR and Pentax (&other) lenses adapted to Fuji X and Panasonic L digital
Fan of DA limited and old manual lenses
Fan of DA limited and old manual lenses
Posted 31/08/2023 - 09:01
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Don't forget that vinyl records/turntables/valve amplifiers were all consigned to the scrap heap at one time but now enjoy a renewed interest.
I doubt cassettes will ever return but I do suspect DSLRs will follow the same trajectory.
I doubt cassettes will ever return but I do suspect DSLRs will follow the same trajectory.
Posted 31/08/2023 - 09:31 - Helpful Comment
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roberrl wrote:
I doubt cassettes will ever return...
I doubt cassettes will ever return...
They are returning! The British Phonographic Industry reports that sales have increased every year for the last 10 years. Still some way to go to catch vinyl, but a number of major artists are now releasing albums on cassette. It seems that as well as the nostalgia trend, artists appreciate having the direct link to their fans which streaming does not provide.
Expect sales of photograph albums to increase any time soon...
Steve
Posted 31/08/2023 - 15:44
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I was visiting a castle in the Lake District that contained some beautiful paintings when a thought popped into my mind. The cameraphone pictures of today relate to DSLR images in a similar way to how film photography related to paintings.
One of these is the new normal, while the other takes its place as a form of art.
One of these is the new normal, while the other takes its place as a form of art.
All the gear with no idea
Posted 31/08/2023 - 18:32 - Helpful Comment
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I have sometimes used my phone, and even won a couple of competitions with photos taken on it, but mostly I go back to an SLR: digital if I need images quickly (for work etc), film for fun. I find myself shooting more and more film these days.
K.
K.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.
My website
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.
My website
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1732 posts
7 years
My mobile phone has all but negated my need to carry a DSLR with me. With four lenses available it covers most FLs I'll be using, but that really isn't the killer feature - the AI processing is a huge game changer.
I'm sure nothing beats the experience of composing, shooting and processing, but in terms of convenience and quality I personally find the arguments in favour of DSLRs are getting weaker. If nothing else, I think cameras need to now include better AI processing of images (and I'm sure some brands do) since it's clearly the best way to take advantage of a much smaller sensor.
Have you seen your camera use declining as technology advances?