K5 writing to card
Posted 25/07/2013 - 07:54
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If you format the card in the camera, rather than deleting images, there will definitely be no problems. I wouldn't try to discourage people from doing this MrS, because it is good practice and it works. Good practice costs no time and does no harm. Belt and braces.
I know we can get away with doing less, but sometimes cards bite back as a consequence. They also get cluttered with file fragments and the capacity very gradually drops.
I know we can get away with doing less, but sometimes cards bite back as a consequence. They also get cluttered with file fragments and the capacity very gradually drops.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/07/2013 - 11:44
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johnriley wrote:
If you format the card in the camera, rather than deleting images, there will definitely be no problems. I wouldn't try to discourage people from doing this MrS, because it is good practice and it works. Good practice costs no time and does no harm. Belt and braces.
If you format the card in the camera, rather than deleting images, there will definitely be no problems. I wouldn't try to discourage people from doing this MrS, because it is good practice and it works. Good practice costs no time and does no harm. Belt and braces.
Absolutely correct John. In theory a FAT32 file system is a FAT32 file system and it shouldn't make any difference what device it is formatted in. That is of course assuming all devices implement the FAT32 standard perfectly. I prefer not to make that assumption so good practice is as you say to format in camera.
Quote:
I know we can get away with doing less, but sometimes cards bite back as a consequence. They also get cluttered with file fragments and the capacity very gradually drops.
I know we can get away with doing less, but sometimes cards bite back as a consequence. They also get cluttered with file fragments and the capacity very gradually drops.
Yes indeed. Deleting individual scattered images does not free up physical space on the card as you would expect. Even deleting all images is not guaranteed to clean up the card space as the FAT32 file system does not implement TRIM support (google TRIM for details if you are interested in computer stuff). Best practice is to reformat the card in camera at least occasionally to clear it all up.
Note that we don't actually know what pressing the 'delete all images' button the camera actually does. It is entirely possible that it actually does a card reformat when you choose that option rather than deleting the images individually - which would a very nice and very sensible way for Pentax to have engineered it.
Posted 25/07/2013 - 13:35
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FAT32 is a logical file system it has no bearing on how the data is actually stored physically.
Defragmenting Solid state media is pointless, since memory addresses have no guaranteed correlation to physical location in memory. In fact de-fragging solid state media (including SSD fixed disks) is slightly harmful because it uses up write cycles for no benefit.
The controller chip built into the card determines what physical memory area a particular file is writen to, and most modern ones have a load ballancing algorithm to make sure no particular memory cells wear out more quickly than the average.
All the above, plus everything gwing said, is all true and may in certain circumstances cause problems including but not limited to slow data access and loss of images. It can also all be avoided in all cases by simply formatting the card in the camera you intend to use it in.
Given that on most cameras and certainly all Pentax DSLR models formatting the card is also the most convinient way to blank it, I simply don't see a reason NOT to do this. You can avoid all the technological babble and just get on with shooting great pictures if you just do this one thing - Format the card in the camera you plan to use it in before you begin.
Defragmenting Solid state media is pointless, since memory addresses have no guaranteed correlation to physical location in memory. In fact de-fragging solid state media (including SSD fixed disks) is slightly harmful because it uses up write cycles for no benefit.
The controller chip built into the card determines what physical memory area a particular file is writen to, and most modern ones have a load ballancing algorithm to make sure no particular memory cells wear out more quickly than the average.
All the above, plus everything gwing said, is all true and may in certain circumstances cause problems including but not limited to slow data access and loss of images. It can also all be avoided in all cases by simply formatting the card in the camera you intend to use it in.
Given that on most cameras and certainly all Pentax DSLR models formatting the card is also the most convinient way to blank it, I simply don't see a reason NOT to do this. You can avoid all the technological babble and just get on with shooting great pictures if you just do this one thing - Format the card in the camera you plan to use it in before you begin.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 25/07/2013 - 14:49
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johnriley wrote:
If you format the card in the camera, rather than deleting images, there will definitely be no problems. I wouldn't try to discourage people from doing this MrS, because it is good practice and it works. Good practice costs no time and does no harm. Belt and braces.
I know we can get away with doing less, but sometimes cards bite back as a consequence. They also get cluttered with file fragments and the capacity very gradually drops.
If you format the card in the camera, rather than deleting images, there will definitely be no problems. I wouldn't try to discourage people from doing this MrS, because it is good practice and it works. Good practice costs no time and does no harm. Belt and braces.
I know we can get away with doing less, but sometimes cards bite back as a consequence. They also get cluttered with file fragments and the capacity very gradually drops.
Just deleting the images is also good practise because it works. Deleting all the images is NOT "doing less" than formattng the card.
Formatting the card in the card reader is not "doing less" than formatting the card
Mongoose wrote:
You can avoid all the technological babble and just get on with shooting great pictures if you just do this one thing - Format the card in the camera you plan to use it in before you begin.
You can avoid all the technological babble and just get on with shooting great pictures if you just do this one thing - Format the card in the camera you plan to use it in before you begin.
That is misleading information. You're claiming, or at least implying, that the only way to shoot great pictures and avoiding technical babble is to format the card in the camera. This is NOT true.
Once copied to hard drive there is absolutely nothing wrong with simply deleting the images off the card before putting the card back into the camera. Windows and Mac file functions are tried and tested for a lot longer and widespread than Digital cameras
I've processed around 200,000 images this way and haven't lost one image, one card or had reduced capacity on any cards.
I do it this was becuase it's convenient for me.
If it's convenient for you to format your card in the camera to delete your previous images then there's nothing wrong with doing that either.
But please don't don't try and scare people into thinking they may lose capacity or lose images becuase they don't do it your way and/or your way is superior practice.
.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 25/07/2013 - 14:55
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Nobody's trying to scare anyone, but you do seem resistant to just doing things the recommended way. I'm very happy for you to do whatever you want to do.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:05
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johnriley wrote:
Nobody's trying to scare anyone, but you do seem resistant to just doing things the recommended way. I'm very happy for you to do whatever you want to do.
Nobody's trying to scare anyone, but you do seem resistant to just doing things the recommended way. I'm very happy for you to do whatever you want to do.
There is no "recommended way". There a few equally valid ways of clearing the card for another shoot
I do things in a manner that both works and is convenient to me. I'm also happy for others to do the same.
What I'm resistant to is misinformation and the parroting of such misinformation.
If someone is posting claims that one method of doing something is superior to another method without any evidence of such then there's nothing wrong in contending that claim is there? Isn't that what forum debate is all about? Discussion so people can read all sides of the debate?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:31
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I'll refer you to the instruction manual, which I would regard as the recommended way.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:35
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Smeggypants wrote:
That is misleading information. You're claiming, or at least implying, that the only way to shoot great pictures and avoiding technical babble is to format the card in the camera. This is NOT true.
That is misleading information. You're claiming, or at least implying, that the only way to shoot great pictures and avoiding technical babble is to format the card in the camera. This is NOT true.
I said nothing of the kind, I said that if you format the card in the camera you intend to use it in then (barring technical failure which is very rare with high quality cards and cameras) you will not experience any problems, and can therefore free your mind of card related considerations and get on with taking photographs.
Deppending on exact card/camera combinations, my route may or may not be the only route to trouble free shooting BUT and this is my critical point, no one has ever run into trouble by formatting their cards every time.
Personally, I'd rather stick to a technique which is known to work on all camera/card combinations rather than having a niggling concern in the back of my mind about unexpected and unnececary card problems.
You are of course free to do as you wish with your own equipment and I have no doubt that we will both continue to have no trouble with our own chosen workflows.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:48
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I prefer not to blindly believe everything.
It's also worth noting that some people keep text files of their contact information on SD Cards, so there's a chance a lost card might be returned
Instruction manual for what? There's NOTHING in my Pentax K-5 Manual that recommends formatting as a superior method to deleting all images on an SD card. I wouldn't expect it to either.
It's also worth noting that some people keep text files of their contact information on SD Cards, so there's a chance a lost card might be returned
johnriley wrote:
I'll refer you to the instruction manual, which I would regard as the recommended way.
I'll refer you to the instruction manual, which I would regard as the recommended way.
Instruction manual for what? There's NOTHING in my Pentax K-5 Manual that recommends formatting as a superior method to deleting all images on an SD card. I wouldn't expect it to either.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:52
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I'm not going to look it up for you, but it is in the K-5 manual, apart from being accepted practice across the literature.
Best regards, John
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:56
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Mongoose wrote:
I said nothing of the kind, I said that if you format the card in the camera you intend to use it in then (barring technical failure which is very rare with high quality cards and cameras) you will not experience any problems, and can therefore free your mind of card related considerations and get on with taking photographs.
Deppending on exact card/camera combinations, my route may or may not be the only route to trouble free shooting BUT and this is my critical point, no one has ever run into trouble by formatting their cards every time.
Smeggypants wrote:
That is misleading information. You're claiming, or at least implying, that the only way to shoot great pictures and avoiding technical babble is to format the card in the camera. This is NOT true.
That is misleading information. You're claiming, or at least implying, that the only way to shoot great pictures and avoiding technical babble is to format the card in the camera. This is NOT true.
I said nothing of the kind, I said that if you format the card in the camera you intend to use it in then (barring technical failure which is very rare with high quality cards and cameras) you will not experience any problems, and can therefore free your mind of card related considerations and get on with taking photographs.
Deppending on exact card/camera combinations, my route may or may not be the only route to trouble free shooting BUT and this is my critical point, no one has ever run into trouble by formatting their cards every time.
You simply don't know that. You cannot claim any method is 100% foolproof. You were claiming that formatting the card in the camera is superior to just deleting all the images. This is not the case
Quote:
Personally, I'd rather stick to a technique which is known to work on all camera/card combinations rather than having a niggling concern in the back of my mind about unexpected and unnececary card problems.
Personally, I'd rather stick to a technique which is known to work on all camera/card combinations rather than having a niggling concern in the back of my mind about unexpected and unnececary card problems.
Indeed, and likewise I stick to a technique which is also know to work.
No method is 100% foolproof
The bottom line is that if it's more convenient for people to delete the image via Windows or MacOS in their card reader before returning the card to the camera then that's the method they should use. If it's more convenient to format the card every time in the camera then that's the method people should use.
My point is that no method is superior to another. If you have mental niggles from other methods then that doesn't mean everyone else does or should?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 25/07/2013 - 15:59
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johnriley wrote:
I'm not going to look it up for you, but it is in the K-5 manual,
I'm not going to look it up for you, but it is in the K-5 manual,
I searched "Format" throughout the K-5 manual and there's nothing whatsoever recommending Formatting as the superior method for deleting all images
Quote:
apart from being accepted practice across the literature.
apart from being accepted practice across the literature.
accepted by whom? what literature?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Posted 25/07/2013 - 16:32
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this discussion is in danger of decending into an argument, and no one in history has ever won an argument on the internet.
We have all put forth our points, I respectfully suggest that anyone who wishes to now has the necessary information to make up their own minds and we should end it before someone says something they'll regret.
We have all put forth our points, I respectfully suggest that anyone who wishes to now has the necessary information to make up their own minds and we should end it before someone says something they'll regret.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 25/07/2013 - 16:56
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Mongoose wrote:
this discussion is in danger of decending into an argument, and no one in history has ever won an argument on the internet.
We have all put forth our points, I respectfully suggest that anyone who wishes to now has the necessary information to make up their own minds and we should end it before someone says something they'll regret.
this discussion is in danger of decending into an argument, and no one in history has ever won an argument on the internet.
We have all put forth our points, I respectfully suggest that anyone who wishes to now has the necessary information to make up their own minds and we should end it before someone says something they'll regret.
Thank you for not taking it into an argument and saying something you'll regret.
May the discussion continue for all those interested or the mods close the thread.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
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7671 posts
15 years
Smegland
Hi, if you format every time you clear your card rather than use delete there will be no need to defragment the card.
Just to expand upon the above comment ....
if you delete all files using delete command there's NOTHING to defragment, so defragementation in regards to either a format or just deleting all files is irrelevant.
.
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283