K-5 Metz Wireless totally Underexposed

Recently bought a Metz 50AF-1 flash to go with my K-5. Works perfectly on camera, but pictures are totally underexposed when used as wireless. Have set built-in flash to wireless and used as both master & controller but results are the same. Have used on selftimer so can confirm Metz definitely fires. Trawling the internet it seems many have had the same problem but I've found no real solution. I've tried it in Program and Aperture Priority modes with no difference. What am I doing wrong? Help.

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner

Had a quick read of the Metz manual... just some things worth checking:

* Double check the "SERVO" mode is OFF. (Servo is "dumb" slave trigger that only allows "M" mode on the flash)

* Presumably the SL mode is enabled (otherwise it wouldn't trigger)

* Presumably the channel number matches

* Check that you don't have EV compensation on the flash

There's also a Firmware update for the 50AF1 on the Metz.de site - there might be some issue of compatibility in older firmware.

http://www.metz.de/en/flash-units/firmware-download-flash-units/mecablitz-50-af-...

It's definitely odd, since it's the camera that performs the exposure evaluation on the P/preflash, and instructs the remote flash how to behave (by a high speed digital pulse encoding on the flash output I believe). The flash can then adjust from the base exposure (ie with the EV adjustment).

HTH!
Matt

---

http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)

The Mac updater above and also the one for the 58 AF-1 won't launch on my machine. I have informed Metz. Anyone else had this problem?
Looks like I'm gong to have to enter the dark side and start up, gulp... the PC; wish me luck, I can feel an icy breeze building around my feet as I type...

---

Facebook Page
Plymouth Photographer

Thanks both.

Sorry Matt, don't know what you mean by 'SERVO' mode off. Can't see anything in the Metz manual about that.

SL mode is enabled. Have tried flash/camera both set to channel 1 and then both set to channel 2.

No EV compensation on the flash.

Have tried the Metz with my K10D. Again perfect when on camera but way underexposed when wireless.

Did try it with the flash on manual. Much better but still not what I would expect it to be in a small room.

However when I use the built-in flash as a master, the foreground is way underexposed as well, so I don't think my problem is just the K-5/Metz. Hope this all makes sense as I'm not very clued up on flash photography.

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner

Look harder
Page 100, section 9.2.2

We are talking about the 50AF-1 Pentax version?


It works like this:
Preflash
* Camera issues flash command
* Flash guns fire
* Camera takes light meter reading and works out final exposure
Main flash
* Camera lifts mirror and opens shutter
* Camera issues final exposure information to flash guns
* Flashguns fire
* Shutter closes and mirror goes down.

Underexposure happens typically when the preflash shows a mass of light so the exposure system dials back the exposure. Also, if the flashgun fires for the preflash but doesn't fire for the main flash you'll get massively underexposed shots.

Finally, if you have any reflective surfaces (hopefully you aren't shooting in front of a mirror!!) then the camera will dial back the exposure to compensate. The 16-segment metering cameras were more 'touchy' in this respect, while the 77-segment K7/K5 are much better controlled for reflective objects with flash.

There will be a simple explanation somewhere as to why you're getting underexposed images...

Matt

---

http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)

Thanks Matt.
Right then. The reason I couldn't find anything about 'SERVO' is because even though it's a new flash, my firmware and instructions seem to be version 1 and not version 2 as is the one on Metz's website. I can now see SERVO mode quite clearly. Even though my current firmware doesn't allow dumb slave, I do think the Metz flash is being set off by the K-5 preflash. I'm going to update the Metz firmware and try again.
Many thanks

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner

Update:
Have installed the latest Metz firmware. Can now use the dumb slave mode. Flash fires ok ignoring preflash as it should.

Back to original problem. Almost sure now that K-5 built-in flash AND Metz flash are firing a preflash but not a main flash or only a very low powered one. I tested my theory by setting the camera and flash so I could just see their reflection on the edge of my television screen. On most of the pictures which are all very underexposed I can just see two flashes. Could I be right in thinking both are firing full flash power at preflash with little left for main flash?

When mounted on the camera the Metz display indicates P-TTL but when off camera says just TTL. Is this normal?
Thanks again.

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner

Just a simple thought:

Is the remote flash visible within the viewfinder?

If it is, the camera will see the preflash from the remote, think "Whoaah! That turned out brighter than I thought" and dial back the base exposure to compensate - yielding a very underexposed image.

All remote flash guns should be out of the field of view (even if only slightly) - doesn't matter where, but definitely out of the field.

As it happens, the same thing occurs when you think "I know - I'll use my remote as a white back light". The camera will see the remote as a very bright area and dial everything back. (Hint: you should always use "M" for studio, setup shots where you have complete control over all the lighting. It'll save a ton of time in the end!)

If all that doesn't help...
...just email me a sample image (JPG will be fine) with all EXIF information intact The EXIF contains the complete exposure information - ambient, and preflash - and is helpful in sussing out issues like this

Matt

---

http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)

Thanks again Matt. Yes the remote is JUST visible on the edge of the viewfinder and pointed at an angle so only a bit of it is visable. I'll have another go at it tonight/in the morning and if unsucessful send you an email. Looks like someone else has this same problem with the K-5 and Metz 50AF-1.
https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/k-5---af-360-wireless-flash-underexposed-...

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner

Some progress. I think my problem was caused by having the flash to close to the subject, the distance sensor on the Metz must be picking this up, I'm sure someone will correct me if this is/was not the case. I had better results with the Metz placed further away from the subject and I've also tried "M" servo mode with the below settings with on board flash set to PTTL, you will have to adjust the EV on the Metz to get the correct exposure. Wish I still had my light meter

K5 - Mode "M" Shutter 1/125 Aperture f2.8 ISO-100 on board flash as commander EV 0. Metz 50AF-1 set to "SL" EV 0. Bounced off ceiling, Subject distance 8ft.

Exposure Underexposed.

K5 - Mode "M" Shutter 1/125 Aperture f2.8 ISO-100 on board flash as commander EV 0. Metz 50AF-1 set to "SL" EV 1. Bounced off ceiling, Subject distance 8ft.

Exposure not perfect but better.

K5 - Mode "M" Shutter 1/125 Aperture f2.8 ISO-100 on board flash as commander EV 1. Metz 50AF-1 set to "SL" EV 1. Bounced off ceiling, Subject distance 8ft.

Correctly Exposed.

K5 - Mode "M" Shutter 1/125 Aperture f2.8 ISO-100 on board flash as Master EV 0. Metz 50AF-1 set to "SL" EV 0. Bounced off ceiling, Subject distance 8ft.

Correctly Exposed.

So it appears all is well, it just takes a little getting used to, this set up doesn't work as well as Nikon or Olympus, most defiantly not idiot proof, think I'll get my 5 year old grandson to show me how to use it

Thanks Klian & Matt.
I'm on night shift at the moment so can't get my brain into the right gear. Will have some more trials when I'm back in this world. On the plus side I've got a Sekonic flash meter lurking in the cupboard. Will dig it out.

P.S. I've got a 5 year old grandaughter, will she do...??

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner

As I said before, if you are doing studio style shots where you are controlling all the available light, then I would strongly suggest good 'ol Manual flash (where you set the fractional power amount).

You stick the camera in "M" mode as well (and preferably meter without flash for somewhere between -3 and -1Ev ambient light), and then take a test shot or two to get the flash ratios right. In the end I can set this up by guess work and be ready in a couple of shots easily. Once that's done you just shoot away (as long as the flash-to-subject distance doesn't change much). This is definitely the easiest for taking lots of shots (e.g. at an event).

Reserve P-TTL for situations where you have little control, or where you're moving about a lot (e.g. weddings )

BTW, my e-book on flash usage might prove useful
Matt

---

http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)

Thanks Matt. Have ordered your book.

---

6th Year Apprentice Pensioner