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K-5 IIs RAW Problem

Sean282
Posted 18/04/2013 - 12:06 Link
stephanie0812

Could I suggest that you PM the mods and ask them to edit the title of this thread?
Posted 19/04/2013 - 16:41 Link
Hi Sean, I will try to get the title amended. Sorry if this has upset anyone or given anyone the wrong impression of the K5iis, which I am sure will give great service once I have sorted out the raw format issue.
Steph
johnriley
Posted 19/04/2013 - 16:48 Link
I've ammended it for you Steph - is that more suitable?
Posted 19/04/2013 - 16:48 Link
Hello, I can't see a way to contact the Moderators directly so hope someone will read this who can edit the forum. Please could you change the title of my original thread to something like 'raw format issue in photoshop with K5IIs'? or similar. I would completely change the original thread if I could to something less drastic but wouldn't want to delete it completely because it raises what might be an genuine issue for Pentax users.
Thank you everyone for helpful comments.

Steph
Steph
johnriley
Posted 19/04/2013 - 16:49 Link
Our messages croosed Steph. A PM or report will find us if you need any further help.
Best regards, John
Posted 19/04/2013 - 16:59 Link
Thank you John. Will be more measured with my posts in future
Steph
Mannesty
Posted 19/04/2013 - 17:16 Link
If you prefer, you can still save your images as .PEF if you fear losing some of the EXIF data, then convert them to .DNG using Adobe's standalone converter.

This of course will almost double the amount of storage used if you want to keep both formats.

I haven't checked the file sizes of the .PEF and .DNG files produced by the K-5 II, but for other cameras, the .DNG file is significantly smaller, which I think is a good reason to use .DNG.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream
gwing
Posted 19/04/2013 - 20:06 Link
Gamka wrote:

As for DNG - that spec changes too and older Adobe software will not cope with newer versions too. I do not know which version the K5ii uses but you could have problems with older software that does not support that either.

I would sincerely hope not. It is understandable that there is a lag in implementing support for new camera formats but there is no excuse for dropping backwards support for old formats, doubly so when it is not a makers perhaps undocumented format but a published standard (DNG) and doubly*doubly so if it is Adobe's own standard we are talking about. I really can't believe Adobe would ever be as stupid as that.

Quote:
And a question that I have been unable to get an answer to: Does DNG capture and fully store every piece of information or data that the camera produces and stores in the .PEF format? I have heard comment from a Nikon owner that one or two pieces of data in their format are not available or are truncated in DNG.

I think that is really the responsibility of the individual camera maker and their decision as to what information they write into the files, which would be the case whether native raw or .dng is chose. Alternatively if we are talking about producing .pef files and converting them to .dng then it will come down to how well the conversion software is written. But in Pentax's case, as far as I am aware, the .dng files have all the relevant information, certainly all I want.
gwing
Posted 19/04/2013 - 20:11 Link
Mannesty wrote:
If you prefer, you can still save your images as .PEF if you fear losing some of the EXIF data, then convert them to .DNG using Adobe's standalone converter.

This of course will almost double the amount of storage used if you want to keep both formats.

Really not a good idea. Not only are you doubling storage space and slowing the camera down but there have been problems recognising and handling converted images properly (this is from outside the world of Adobe software). It's better to pick a format and use it not gratuitously convert from one to the other.

I haven't checked the file sizes of the .PEF and .DNG files produced by the K-5 II, but for other cameras, the .DNG file is significantly smaller, which I think is a good reason to use .DNG.[/quote]

Yhey're as close to identical as makes no difference - unless you have one of the much older Pentax bodies where only .pefs were compressed and where .dng files were correspondingly much larger.
Smeggypants
Posted 19/04/2013 - 20:20 Link
Gamka wrote:


And a question that I have been unable to get an answer to: Does DNG capture and fully store every piece of information or data that the camera produces and stores in the .PEF format? I have heard comment from a Nikon owner that one or two pieces of data in their format are not available or are truncated in DNG.

Well far as the image itself goes I've compared PEF and the same PEF converted to DNG and there's no difference. I haven't tested if there's any loss of metadata, but I dont' use any metadata out of the camera except the usual exposure and capture time stuff, and none of that was lost
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McGregNi
Posted 19/04/2013 - 20:58 Link
I believe that almost universally the DNG format is the more versatile and future proof. We are actually extremely lucky as Pentax shooters to have DSLRs that capture in the DNG format directly. Using this saves a whole step in workflow as we don't need to convert to DNG. I can see no specific advantage to setting .PEF at all.

AFAIK the DNG file will store all the camera metadata, even if any particular RAW converter doesn't actually use it (eg Lightroom would probably not apply the 'fine sharpness 2 parameter' from the custom image settings, but the data is there, to be used if required by any other program in future.

You have good future proofing also with DNG - an increasing number of RAW converters can now read it, and as an archival format it is in unrivelled IMO. This is because it applies a 'firewall' between the actual sensor image data and any metadata or processed JPEG preview. This is advantagous, as you can use the file to re-process at a future date (say a new interpretation of your photo, or using a new piece of software), and the JPEG and metadata will be updated, leaving the original image sensor data intact.
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Mannesty
Posted 19/04/2013 - 22:26 Link
gwing wrote:
Not only are you doubling storage space and slowing the camera down but ...

Can you explain why you think the camera will 'slow down' when you can record raw files in either .PEF or .DNG, not both together?

Quote:
They're as close to identical as makes no difference - unless you have one of the much older Pentax bodies where only .pefs were compressed and where .dng files were correspondingly much larger.

I think .DNG files produced by the K20D, which is one of the cameras I have, are significantly smaller than its .PEF's.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream
Edited by Mannesty: 19/04/2013 - 22:26
Gwyn
Posted 19/04/2013 - 22:36 Link
True Peter - .DNgs on a K20 are much smaller than .PEFs. PEfs are huge from the K20D.
With the K-5 they are similar sized.

I found my version of PSE would read K-5 PEFs but not K5ii PEFS. I found out when I accidentally set the RAW default to PEF rather than DNG. Soon set that right, and also converted the PEFs to DNGs in the computer.
Mannesty
Posted 19/04/2013 - 22:49 Link
Thanks Gwyn, that saves me digging out the K20D to check it.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream
gwing
Posted 20/04/2013 - 00:08 Link
Mannesty wrote:

Can you explain why you think the camera will 'slow down' when you can record raw files in either .PEF or .DNG, not both together?

Sorry, read the post too quickly. I thought you were talking about saving images in both formats 'in camera'. My bad.

Quote:
They're as close to identical as makes no difference - unless you have one of the much older Pentax bodies where only .pefs were compressed and where .dng files were correspondingly much larger.

I think .DNG files produced by the K20D, which is one of the cameras I have, are significantly smaller than its .PEF's.[/quote]

Well if you have the K20 and that is how it actually is I'm happy to be corrected. The first Pentax cameras to support DNG only compressed pef not dng so dng was much larger. Later on dng compression came in so file sizes became comparable, from memory I thought this happened with the K7 and KX so the K20 ought to be one of the older large dng models, but maybe the K20 falls the other side of the line as well.

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