"It's all about the glass". Show me examples please


cabstar

Link Posted 15/09/2012 - 20:02
Algernon wrote:
McGregNi wrote:
I agree with the general idea that spending money on lenses can give 'more bang per buck'. In the case of upgrading from a K7 to a K5 or buying lenses, then personally I'd opt for new lenses.....

What's the point of buying new lenses if you can't use them The K7 or K20D is pretty useless at anything over 400ISO which can be in the shade on a bright day. You also can't pull back underexposed shots. Cheap lenses work great on the K-5

I've just shot this in dim light in the kitchen with
the K-5 and an old 1950's Enlarger Lens held onto
some tubes by Blu-Tak...





-

Wow the shot of mine above on the tamron was shot at ISO 1250 on Samsung , I have never had a problem shooting at high ISO on anything since the gx20. It's all in the software!

The responsiveness however between the gx20 / k-7 to the k-5 are night and day.

It is all about the glass though, my lenses have lasted k100d, gx20, k-x, k-r and my next body the k-5 mk2
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Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

Smeggypants

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 02:55
McGregNi wrote:

So it would not make financial sense upgrading from K7 to K5, all else being equal - I think most photos would look exactly the same if shot on either.

Couldn't disagree more. Upgrading from a K20D ( which was similar if not the same sensor as the K ) was a huge increase in IQ ast ALL ISOs. the increase in Dynamic range is across the board, not just at higher ISOs.

You'll never be able to process shadow detail on a K20D/K7 like you can on a K-5


Quote:

But an investment in some serious 'big glass' would definately make a difference, and continue to make a difference in the future when these lenses are used on any newer body. For example, I spent a minimal amount of money on an old (1976) Tamron Adaptal 135mm f2.8, and I can produce completely different shots with it than I can with my 'K' 75-150 f4.0 zoom, just because of the extra stop, the finer manual focusing and the extra sharpness. Likewise the new Samyang 14mm f2.8 - this could change my photography for ever as it opens up so many new possibities.

I agree that at present the K5 II is an enticing prospect at the right price - the advances to autofocus look significant, and that could make a difference in many situations.

Sharpness isn't at the top of my list of features. Dynamic range and DOF control are probably my two top priorities
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Smeggypants

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 03:00
Algernon wrote:
The K7 or K20D is pretty useless at anything over 400ISO

I think you'll have trouble selling that claim to most K20D/K7 owners or pre-owners. The K5 is indeed 3 stops better than the K20D/K7 and no one would say the K5 is useless above 3200.

here's a shot I took at ISO12800 on my K5




Useless?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Last Edited by Smeggypants on 16/09/2012 - 03:00

Algernon

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 07:33
Try shooting birds at 800ISO on a K20D/K-7

It's probably OK for shots like the above or people
just no use on feathers without a lot of PP.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

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McGregNi

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 08:44
OK, I should have said that most of my own shots (the fair weather ones at iso 100!), with the same lens and same settings, would not look any different at a normal magnification or print size, if shot on a K7 or K5. Thats what I really mean! Granted, a close inspection at the shadows might reveal some difference.

I was really looking at it from an overall value for money persepctive. This obviously depends on an individuals photography priorities and what equipment they already have. In your case Smeggy, you have already got fast lenses, but another person who wanted to get a shallower DOF, would be better advised to invest in a f1.8 or f1.4 lens, before upgrading the camera.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

aliengrove

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 11:06
To get back to the OP's question...

The Pentax lens review forum on the other forum is a good place to find out what people think of different lenses. I've bought about half of my lenses after having a look there and on other forums, and ended up with some great reasonably cheap lenses. I've probably saved myself a few grand in the process. In fact I now only have two lenses I bought new, the DA15mm Ltd, which I mainly use for IR on a Sony Nex5N, and the Pentax 16-45mm, which I picked up new for 130 quid.

The FA 24-90mm, although very cheap and plasticky-looking, is probably my most used lens, plus it's AF. The Sigma 24-60mm f2.8 was also a bargain, it's very sharp and not much in demand as everyone wants the 24-70mm version. The Tamron Adaptall II 80-200mm is probably my sharpest lens, though it's a toss-up between that and the Tamron Adaptall II SP 90mm f2.5. However, AF is not a priority for me, which gives me a lot more choices, though some of my older lenses are a bit heavy.
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JAK

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 18:10
dinneenp wrote:
Can you post some photos of an identical scene taken with 2 different lenses to show me examples of 'it's all about the glass'

Any particular focal lengths or lenses you're thinking of? Otherwise not sure where to start to help!

Are you thinking standard lenses, wide angle, extreme wide angle, telephoto, macro, zoom, prime, lenses with a wider aperture vs smaller lighter lenses which are not as fast.

If you narrow it down someone may be able to take the comparison photos you want if they have the lenses in question, but one could spend months doing this for you and it still might not help you at all!

John
John K

stephanbennett

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 18:50
Bokeh! What a beautiful word. I had to look it up in the dictionary though.

McGregNi

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 18:59
I think this thread has taken off in two different ways. If we're trying to compare two tenses of the same basic specification (focal length, max aperture, type of element construction, coatings etc), then we may be wasting our time, at least if only looking at them on a computer screen.

Sure, if one of them is a standard 'consumer' grade item and the other is a 'pro' version equivalent, then under close scrutiny at magnification we could expect to see a difference, but for many picture conditions there probably won't be that much in it (handling might be another difference to think about).

But, the other way to look at this idea that 'its all about the glass', is the kind of take I have on it, which is that changing lenses, either to different focal lengths or increasing the max aperture for example, is where we usually see the biggest gain immediately. This will be a benefit on our current bodies as well as future improved models, so is a good way to spend money and see a result.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

womble

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 20:06
Smeggypants wrote:
Algernon wrote:
The K7 or K20D is pretty useless at anything over 400ISO

I think you'll have trouble selling that claim to most K20D/K7 owners or pre-owners...

I have no idea what posting a K-5 image has to do with the K20D A complete non sequitur, I fear.

As a K20D owner/user, I never push it over ISO400, it looks horrible and my old version of Lightroom makes no difference. If I want anything faster than 400 I break out a roll of Neopan 1600 from the freezer, or use a tripod and a cable release.

K.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

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davidstorm

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 20:28
womble wrote:
As a K20D owner/user, I never push it over ISO400, it looks horrible and my old version of Lightroom makes no difference. If I want anything faster than 400 I break out a roll of Neopan 1600 from the freezer, or use a tripod and a cable release

I have similar experiences with the the K-m, but it produces lovely images at anything from ISO 400 down. In fact, it's better than the K-x at low ISO, but obviously cannot compete with the K-5.

Regards
David
My Website http://imagesbydavidstorm.foliopic.com

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Algernon

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 20:38
womble wrote:
I have no idea what posting a K-5 image has to do with the K20D A complete non sequitur, I fear.
K.

What the hell are you on about. It was posted to
show Quote: "Cheap lenses work great on the K-5" and was taken
with an old enlarging lens!



womble wrote:

As a K20D owner/user, I never push it over ISO400, it looks horrible and my old version of Lightroom makes no difference. If I want anything faster than 400 I break out a roll of Neopan 1600 from the freezer, or use a tripod and a cable release.

K.

Your mad!... how can you put a roll of film in a K20D?
and what has film got to do with this thread?
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

McGregNi

Link Posted 16/09/2012 - 22:16
I've checked my BG-4 grip and I think you could get the film cartridge into one of the slots on that.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Boyo2406

Link Posted 17/09/2012 - 10:38
This thread on the other forum has some testimages with different lenses.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/193250-manual-28mm...
Digital

K-30, GX-10, DA 16-45, DA 18-55 and DAL 55 - 300

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ME Super, 2 x MX, SP 500 and SP F

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McGregNi

Link Posted 17/09/2012 - 21:45
In defence of the lowly K7's capabilities, here are a couple of shots I took recently - iso 1600, no flash, lens was an 'A' 28mm f2.8. I did remove some shadow noise, but the edge detail was easily bought back.

I was getting workable shutter speeds in the region of 60th-90th sec, and I feel the quality was great.




My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
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