eye-watering water-damage repair cost for K5+18-135mm


froeschle

Link Posted 08/08/2013 - 21:09
Hi George Lazarette,

I agree with most of your points. However, what is the advantage of WR then at all?

Furthermore, what is your opinion about official promotional videos like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_-RAzBjakk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNh3wLJydAI

George Lazarette

Link Posted 08/08/2013 - 21:21
froeschle wrote:
Hi George Lazarette,

I agree with most of your points. However, what is the advantage of WR then at all?

Furthermore, what is your opinion about official promotional videos like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_-RAzBjakk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNh3wLJydAI

Hello,

First, I think these cameras are generally pretty good at keeping out the rain, and that is useful. I have taken my Pentax cameras out to sea in small boats and not been concerned about them.

Second, who says these videos are "official"? I am not convinced they were made to Pentax's order. Perhaps an optimistic distributor.

Third, even the best product will fail occasionally. My Rolex Submariner, guaranteed water-proof to 200 metres, leaked in the shower.

Fourth, I don't leave my kit outside in winter. I wonder if condensation might have been the culprit in this case. Whatever the cause, the camera does not seem to have led a pampered life.

G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
Last Edited by George Lazarette on 08/08/2013 - 21:22

Algernon

Link Posted 08/08/2013 - 21:23
77 seals is a hell of a lot It must work otherwise they
would have just used half a dozen.

With regard to the zoom it probably alternates between air pressure
and a vacuum slowly controlled/released by a breathable waterproof
sealant.

Have none of you got a camera with a sealed zoom I haven't
I rust in the rain What happens when you pump the zoom and
then open a rubber flap or the SD Card door? Does it HISS! as
though air is escaping.

'
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

ilovesaabs

Link Posted 08/08/2013 - 22:37
First I checked the lens was WR - which it is.....

I've taken my K10D and K20D plus DA* to some pretty damp environments - they survived rather well....They plus the K5 have gone to dusty environments and then placed under a shower to wash the dust/sand off.

Never any problems.

From what I have read is that the seals on the lens and camera should protect the camera from the elements but it sounds as if Pentax have invalidated the warranty claim due to a substantial ingress of water into the camera...I can't comment further...but it's very much one person's opinion vs Pentax. I wish you good luck with your challenge.

As for disposing the camera FOC - as if they will put the camera in the rubbish can - anything that can be reused will be recycled as spare material for repairs, a good result for them, not for you. But will you be able to claim on insurance though for a replacement?
AKA Welshwizard/PWynneJ
Assorted Pentax/Nikon/Mamiya stuff

Evel79

Link Posted 08/08/2013 - 23:19
George, I'm not sure what you mean not led a pampered life, rather presumptive wouldn't you say? Unfortunately i think some have become so brainwashed by tech companies, that when someone has a problem people are sadly quick to jump on the user, rather than to think they maybe his tech failed in some way. That the issue only started when I changed battery suggests something electrical at work and we all know how electrical problems can maifest themselves in many ways - it does not mean multiple problems.

I'm glad you also think they are pretty good in the rain, noting John says he has often used this combo in heavy rain as have many others on this thread - even with non WR lenses. That's the point of the thread. You'll have seen I also said I had used it in intermittant drizzly conditions over a series of days. As said, always in a bag when not in use and I always have two drying cloths, so that one is always damp free, and I can dry it as I go along if need be. Not a scrath on my camera, thank you very much. The mirror issue I mentioned on here about 18 months ago as I thought it odd, but in the end dsimissed it to being due to an old not A1 manual lens. That I now have 4 manuals with exactly the same mirror issue tells me only now otherwise. I've never moved it from cold to warm envronments without plastic bagging appropriately, and not at all during the relevent time.

We only need to cast our minds back to the sensor issue to know that problems can and do arise. That you may not suffer as a result until later doesn't dimish it in any way.

I'm not sure why you doubt the videos? The pentax rep in the pentax t-shirt at the pentax stand pouring water all over the camera is pretty well known (if arguably not authorised from head office). The one I linked is an official promo from back in the day, but if you still doubt, you can always head straight to Pentax's own website and check out the big K5 promotional banner here:
link

Then go to the official EU site and check out all pictures from 23 onwards - the implication is pretty damn clear to me, straight from Pentax:link
(disclaimer last is of K5II, K5 no longer on site - but pentax also acknowledges it's the same carried over to from K5)

Yes they do seem to change between weatherproof and weather-resistant in terminology in places, but you have to look at the bigger picture, in terms of the whole marketing: descriptions, official videos, viral videos, product shots etc. It's their biggest trump card, and they have gone to great efforts to hammer home the point it can be used in even the most extreme weather even "assuring" it can be used reliably under "harsh environment". Operating way above minimum operating temperature away from dust, but subject to exposre to drizzle, is hardly "harsh" or "extreme" as Pentax claim elsewhere, wouldn@t you agree. And using the word "assure" is remarkably close to "guarantee", if not in a legal sense, and certainly seeks to emphasis the credentials.

Of course they can't have a blanket acceptance of water-damage claims. But when someone carefully takes the time to explain in minute detail how it was used within its paramters, there has to be some give from Pentax and a willingness to engage with the customer if they wish to continue to make the claims they do and maintain consumer confidence, or even hold onto existing customers.
Last Edited by Evel79 on 08/08/2013 - 23:25

Evel79

Link Posted 08/08/2013 - 23:22
Good point ilovesaabs - despite my camera not having led a pampered life, I pampered him enough to fully insure him. I will check the policy

froeschle

johnriley

Link Posted 09/08/2013 - 23:57
Unfortunately a translation for those who do0n't speak German may be needed, or at least a summary of what that thread is about please.
Best regards, John

Peter Elgar

Link Posted 10/08/2013 - 04:11
I am in the Philippines where it is HOT and HUMID -- well, after several trips O noticed my 24mm f2.8 Carl Zeiss Pentax-A fit lens has condensation behind the front element but SO FAR my PENTAX lenses are still good !! Keeping fingers crossed ( also my CANON 8mm Video Camera has packed up -- condensation I suspect)
been a member of Pentax Club since the Ron Spillman era! Got COMPUTERISED at last - DIGITISED? Taken the PLUNGE - BUT FILM STILL RULES !!!

Algernon

Link Posted 10/08/2013 - 08:27
Usually leaving a lens in the sun for about an hour will
evaporate the condensation.

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Evel79

Link Posted 10/08/2013 - 08:56
Just noticed my camera insurance does not exclude water damage. But it does exclude manufacturers defects...

Presumably as it's insurance against theft and damage, I would also have to have actually dropped it in a lake or something though. Interesting Nonetheless.

Evel79

Link Posted 10/08/2013 - 09:03
Quote:
Usually leaving a lens in the sun for about an hour will
evaporate the condensation

This whole episode got me wondering about that. Wouldn't the seals work both ways for the wr lenses?

Although one must assume of course that if it got it can get out.
Last Edited by Evel79 on 10/08/2013 - 09:06

Algernon

Link Posted 10/08/2013 - 09:46
Usually it would get out, but it probably only condensed in the
first place because the glass was very cold.

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Peter Elgar

Link Posted 12/08/2013 - 03:45
Well, I have noticed the condensation seems to have CLEARED today !! Video Camera still not working though-- when I get out of Air-Con Toyota we have the use of my glasses all steam up outside ! I have to carrry a face flannel when out to keep wiping sweat from face == I wondered why the Filipinos carried small towels on their shoullders== now I know !Good job I have a good supply of lens tissues !
been a member of Pentax Club since the Ron Spillman era! Got COMPUTERISED at last - DIGITISED? Taken the PLUNGE - BUT FILM STILL RULES !!!

froeschle

Link Posted 12/08/2013 - 09:42
Quote:
Unfortunately a translation for those who do0n't speak German may be needed, or at least a summary of what that thread is about please.

It is a similar story. lichtschachtuwe went to Notting Hill (UK). His combination (K-5II + DA 18-135) was used in rain and completely failed the following day. The camera then recovered and now seems to work without problems. He asks whether he should send the camera in for inspection.

Some answers (excerpts):

- If the damage is due to rain, the seals were defect and it is a clear warranty case. Rain is no challenge for a Pentax.

- Due to the zoom, water may penetrate into the body.

- I had my K10D several times under salt water. My record is 3s and 1.5m - no damage. I washed it under the tap afterwards.

- Several years ago, on "Bird Munich", Pentax cameras stood three days in the rain before the tent - all other manufactureres presented their equipment in there.

- Something similar happened to my K-5 + WR lens (last autumn in Rome). I had the combination checked by the service after that. No obvious water damage was found - but could also not be excluded. So, I do not really trust the "weather-proofness". As photographing aquanaut, I am also aware of problems and thus really careful with my equipment.

- Temperature differences and air humidity might be an issue. Condensation may lead to malfunctions. I also had problems with my K-7 and 18-135. I put them wet into my rucksack. Under the sun it was like in a sauna in there. Only after three days all worked properly again.

- I found myself in the pool after some vodkas (together with the K10). Countless other wet and dirty occasions...

- Do not put the camera under the rain jacket. Sweating causes high temperatures and near 100% air humidity.

- Use silica gel.

- Never had problems with my K5/K7 in very wet conditions.

- Defect seals can be a problem.

- If my camera would suffer from a water damage, I would confront Pentax with their marketing promises - lifelong warranty! (There was some discussion about "lifelong".)

- I reminded them of the official warranty, which explicitely excludes water damage. Reliable watertightness might even be impossible!

- Zackspeed sells cameras in Berlin. He was asked how manufacturers react. He was a bit reluctant but noted that he has seen many cameras from the inside. I then directly asked whether he knows of a single case, where water damage has been repaired upon warranty (and not on goodwill). He knew of two dedicated under-water cameras (1 Olympus, 1 Pentax). I then specified on DSLRs only. The reply: Dust from the displays of several K10 cameras was removed, only half of the repair price of a K5 was taken (on goodwill). So the real answer seems to be: No.

BTW, I also mentioned this thread in dfn. They were a bit sceptical as e.g. no one knows of an official Pentax service in Munich. Some of them would be highly interested in an address, as they live there or close-by.
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