DPR Best DSLR of the year vote


MattyH

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 14:24
CMW wrote:
MattyH wrote:
At the end of the day Ricoh/Pentax can spend all its money on advertising, but in my opinion it will not make any difference until they start making cameras the greater public want or even desire.

Rather harsh. We may all have some reservations about some of the cameras, but the best are, well, up there with the best. It's hard to say the K3 (as a camera, leaving aside the virtues of the different systems) is not on a par with the D7100. Given a bit of time, they'll probably settle to similar prices, too

Not harsh, well maybe a little, but if it wasn't true, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we....and Pentax would hold an equal share of the camera market as the big three.

You could spend millions advertising and marketing a stick, but at the end of the day, it's still a stick....

jules

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 14:44
K3 Kicks @rse,on build Spec and Performance, and no weenie peenie buffer! K5 Kicks @rse on build specs and general picture quality, K50 Kicks @rse on Value for money, Pentax Ricoh's Money off promo Kicks everyones @rse, thats a whole lot of @rse kicking going on.


You can also get another 15% off at the Pentax EU Webstore at the moment too, if I understand the Pentax UK newsletter correctly...
"If you are struggling to find what you want in the January Sales, why not make the most of our exclusive webshop offers with 15% off cameras, 20% off lenses and 40% off binoculars!

Simply visit http://shop-uk.ricoh-imaging.eu/ and enter the promotional codes: SalesCam2014, SalesLens2014, or SalesBino2014 to claim great savings on your New Year purchases."


"Do not despise the snake for having no horns, for who is to say it will not turn into a dragon"
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com
Last Edited by jules on 03/01/2014 - 15:05

cabstar

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 14:45
CMW wrote:
Nothing is going to change the fundamentals. Pentax cameras have a v small market share, and are in the uncomfortable position of being way outside the top three. Spending a disproportionate sum on marketing and PR will be money unwisely spent. It is a long haul ahead for the brand, and the financial logic in the longer term is for further consolidation of the companies producing cameras.

By contributing to this site we have (most of us) made clear that we like Pentax cameras above other comparable offerings. But let's not fool ourselves: the differences between the different dSLRs available are pretty slender. The Nikon D7100 and the Pentax K3 are worthy rivals -- probably the main difference is in the economies of scale that attach to each, with all that means for each company's bottom line and thus ability to sell and support its product.

Well Ricoh are still very profitable so must be doing the right things. And despite not being a major camera manufacturer in the realm of Canon and Nikon they are still a large company with a marketing department and various PR departments.

MattyH wrote:
At the end of the day Ricoh/Pentax can spend all its money on advertising, but in my opinion it will not make any difference until they start making cameras the greater public want or even desire.

And what cameras would they be? FF? How do you attract people to FF without a good APSC level of cameras??? Most members of the public don't even know what they want from a camera to start with....

What Pentax Ricoh really need to do is reach out to some of the pros out there using their products to start endorsing those photographers, supporting their projects instead of constantly ignoring said pro togs. That would make a difference. I know a few togs sponsored by Canon and Nikon whilst I don't know one Pentax shooter in the UK who is sponsored by Pentax. This could raise their brand awareness substantially within the UK, showing pros out there using Pentax products would give the brand some credibility.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography

Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
Last Edited by cabstar on 03/01/2014 - 14:46

CMW

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 15:19
cabstar wrote:
Well Ricoh are still very profitable so must be doing the right things. And despite not being a major camera manufacturer in the realm of Canon and Nikon they are still a large company with a marketing department and various PR departments.

Ricoh's size is an asset to their camera division in the sense that there is a better chance of getting funding for projects that deserve backing. But I would be surprised if in terms of balance sheets Ricoh did not require each of its divisions to stand apart. In other words, the size of Ricoh's marketing overall is unlikely to have any bearing on what can be spent by its camera division.
Regards, Christopher

ChristopherWheelerPhotography

cabstar

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 15:37
Corporations typically separate all businesses from each other, for accounting purposes and other reasons.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography

Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

CMW

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 15:55
cabstar wrote:
Corporations typically separate all businesses from each other, for accounting purposes and other reasons.

...which is what I said.
Regards, Christopher

ChristopherWheelerPhotography

MattyH

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 16:11
I agree with cabstar about getting some pro's sponsored by Pentax, but these pro's have to make a living with the kit they use, changing brands is not all that simple.

Plus you try getting sports pro's or Paps to change to Pentax, the lenses just aren't there, before we even start to talk about AF.

So back to catch 22 again.

cabstar

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 16:22
MattyH wrote:
I agree with cabstar about getting some pro's sponsored by Pentax, but these pro's have to make a living with the kit they use, changing brands is not all that simple.

Plus you try getting sports pro's or Paps to change to Pentax, the lenses just aren't there, before we even start to talk about AF.

So back to catch 22 again.

Nor the flash capabilities for that matter, do any of the new Pentax flash guns shoot at 8 fps???
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography

Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

MattyH

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 16:36
cabstar wrote:
MattyH wrote:
I agree with cabstar about getting some pro's sponsored by Pentax, but these pro's have to make a living with the kit they use, changing brands is not all that simple.

Plus you try getting sports pro's or Paps to change to Pentax, the lenses just aren't there, before we even start to talk about AF.

So back to catch 22 again.

Nor the flash capabilities for that matter, do any of the new Pentax flash guns shoot at 8 fps???

Pentax has now been out of the serious Pro market for so long, it has no hope of getting back in for at least a decade and that's if they start now.

Canon and Nikon have a two decade head start so even if Pentax bring out a range of FF cameras, lenses and flashes most Pros and press agency's are already committed to one of the big brands.

I think we need to stop thinking of Pentax as a brand for the worldwide Pro market and lower our sights one notch to the serious amateur market where I think it's suited.

Sad but true and none of this is Ricohs fault, it all happened back in the 1990's and carried on from there, but Hoya didn't help matters much either.
Last Edited by MattyH on 03/01/2014 - 16:38

Fletcher8

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 17:15
just something to ponder! Who remembers Apple computers in the late 1980s, yes they were widely used by a few creatives, but how often did you see one in the numerous computer shops around at the time?

The iPod for apple was a product that was introduced with some very slick PR, over the last few years Apple products have been selling very well and anything Apple seems to appeal to the majority of people who are cool and not cool regardless of their age.

I think Cabster (Gary) raised a very good point, Pentax Ricoh need to promote the brand more and support togs who are using Pentax for photographic work that is being used in media publications, wether the togs be semi pro or pro.

The K3 is a step in the right direction, but some new glass would really increase interest and only further develop the Pentax brand. The revamped HD Ltd lenses are not enough, Pentax could benefit by looking at what Sigma are now producing lens wise and how togs perceptions of Sigma producing quality glass is now emerging.

As to DPR and the poll, this has got to be a good thing, but will the review cloud this initial poll win that has made Pentax die hards smile?

I think the full review of the K3 by DPR will be an interesting read.
Fletcher8.
Last Edited by Fletcher8 on 03/01/2014 - 17:16

dcweather

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 19:21
Well it must be better to win the poll than not win it I guess, however much or little it means! Mind you, DPR seem to be keeping it pretty low key - it's not exactly up as a headline is it! Now I have a K3 I'm reasonably confident it will get a very good review but they will comment on the AF and high ISO performance and rate it just below the Nikon 7100.

Smeggypants

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 21:43
cabstar wrote:


What Pentax Ricoh really need to do is reach out to some of the pros out there using their products to start endorsing those photographers, supporting their projects instead of constantly ignoring said pro togs. That would make a difference. I know a few togs sponsored by Canon and Nikon whilst I don't know one Pentax shooter in the UK who is sponsored by Pentax. This could raise their brand awareness substantially within the UK, showing pros out there using Pentax products would give the brand some credibility.

Exactly!!!





"... if it's good enough for the Pro's... " sells a lot of hobbiest gear, whether it's cameras, musical instruments, tools, etc,etc.

IMO pentax should bring out a FF model and lenses to suit, do what Gary Says above and then mount a huge advertising campaign.

Pentax aren't lagging behind because of lack of quality, they are lagging behind becuase of awareness and modern credibility.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

JonSchick

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 22:30
I think I'd do it slightly differently to be honest. I don't think Pentax should aim to compete with Canon or Nikon particularly - I don't see how they can. I see them as a more of a niche player - perhaps Subaru would be the automotive equivalent: slightly quirky, bloody good at what they do well, a bit rough around some of the edges, but tough as old boots with a good deal of brand loyalty.

Where that leads me is to think about Pentax's USP as a dSLR manufacturer, and for me that is not about sports or indeed studio work (hence focus and flash has never been quite the priority it might and perhaps should have been). It is almost certainly about rugged outdoors, nature photography and weatherproof work. So where I think they should concentrate their effort is the landscape and street ends of the market. They have excellent equipment relevant to these markets already. Another niche is military and war photography - I've seen some excellent portfolios by war photographers who use Pentax equipment and swear by it. Ricoh might do well to pubicise those - if these cameras are good enough to use in the extreme conditions of Afghanistan etc, then they're more than capable for Croydon.....

If I was them I think I'd also be concentrating on getting some pro's to use the 645D because that really is in quite a nice niche of its own. Given the increasing capability of newer FF bodies, a 645Dii(S!) with some serious professional support might get noticed, at the top end of a market where I think Pentax has a unique offering. I think we should forget the idea of getting journalists or sports photographers to shift brands. Ain't going to happen without a system that Pentax can't afford to manufacture.

As for FF, well I guess they will have to do something at some stage, but I really hope it's closer to the new Sony A7 and 7R implementation rather than another bulky me-too FF dSLR. Unless, that is, they are somehow able to cram a full frame sensor into the K-3 body. That might make people take notice. They've already done that trick with a larger sensor in the Q so who knows.....

jules

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 22:34
JonSchick wrote:
I think I'd do it slightly differently to be honest. I don't think Pentax should aim to compete with Canon or Nikon particularly - I don't see how they can. I see them as a more of a niche player - perhaps Subaru would be the automotive equivalent: slightly quirky, bloody good at what they do well, a bit rough around some of the edges, but tough as old boots with a good deal of brand loyalty.

Where that leads me is to think about Pentax's USP as a dSLR manufacturer, and for me that is not about sports or indeed studio work (hence focus and flash has never been quite the priority it might and perhaps should have been). It is almost certainly about rugged outdoors, nature photography and weatherproof work. So where I think they should concentrate their effort is the landscape and street ends of the market. They have excellent equipment relevant to these markets already. Another niche is military and war photography - I've seen some excellent portfolios by war photographers who use Pentax equipment and swear by it. Ricoh might do well to pubicise those - if these cameras are good enough to use in the extreme conditions of Afghanistan etc, then they're more than capable for Croydon.....

If I was them I think I'd also be concentrating on getting some pro's to use the 645D because that really is in quite a nice niche of its own. Given the increasing capability of newer FF bodies, a 645Dii(S!) with some serious professional support might get noticed, at the top end of a market where I think Pentax has a unique offering. I think we should forget the idea of getting journalists or sports photographers to shift brands. Ain't going to happen without a system that Pentax can't afford to manufacture.

As for FF, well I guess they will have to do something at some stage, but I really hope it's closer to the new Sony A7 and 7R implementation rather than another bulky me-too FF dSLR. Unless, that is, they are somehow able to cram a full frame sensor into the K-3 body. That might make people take notice. They've already done that trick with a larger sensor in the Q so who knows.....

Forget the rest John you hit the nail in the first Paragraph!
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

jules

Link Posted 03/01/2014 - 22:35
Smeggypants wrote:
cabstar wrote:


What Pentax Ricoh really need to do is reach out to some of the pros out there using their products to start endorsing those photographers, supporting their projects instead of constantly ignoring said pro togs. That would make a difference. I know a few togs sponsored by Canon and Nikon whilst I don't know one Pentax shooter in the UK who is sponsored by Pentax. This could raise their brand awareness substantially within the UK, showing pros out there using Pentax products would give the brand some credibility.

Exactly!!!





"... if it's good enough for the Pro's... " sells a lot of hobbiest gear, whether it's cameras, musical instruments, tools, etc,etc.

IMO pentax should bring out a FF model and lenses to suit, do what Gary Says above and then mount a huge advertising campaign.

Pentax aren't lagging behind because of lack of quality, they are lagging behind becuase of awareness and modern credibility.

Me Me, make them sponsor me!
Yeah, some hope!
FF is one of those things, isn't it? I've had Six, I think? Finally realised I just don't need it and can't see why anyone else would but that's because I tried it I guess.
I think after all, that the FF screamers may be right not because it's the right Camera to develop but because it seems to account for 90% of the forum noise around the WWW, for 10% of the Market. If it's not there people shout about why it isn't, If it is there people shout about why it is! Above all people do shout about it and that gets it noticed, Pentax need one then but Anyone who buys one has more money than sense, and of course I'm right about everything...
My track record may go against me here...
Cheers Jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Back in the room!
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it.”...Ansel Adams
www.exaggeratedperspectives.com
Last Edited by jules on 03/01/2014 - 22:46
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