Develop film to RAW?


eddyc

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 15:39
I've been using a Pentax ME a fair amount recently and enjoying shooting film a lot. But I miss the post processing options I get when shooting digital RAW.

I always get film developed to digital since I don't need prints for everything. Does anyone know whether it is possible to get films developed into RAW rather than jpeg?

McGregNi

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 15:51
Impossible. Incompatable. Does not compute! RAW is a camera specific format for storing in a purely digital form everything captured by the specific camera sensor, plus a lot of 'metadata' about the settings. It includes an embedded jpeg to allow the image to be seen on the camera LCD and in computer explorer windows or catalog programs. There are no actual image pixels to be seen - these are only created when the RAW file is 'converted' by software, usually into a TIFF or JPEG.

A scanner can only output an actual 'image' file - ie one made up of pixels, again usually TIFF or JPEGs AFAIK.

I believe you're limited to this by the technology - but a high quality 48bit scan at a decent resolution should give you a good TIFF image whichwill take a fair amount of post processing adjustments. Bear in mind that you can open this TIFF in some RAW software - ACR I think, Lightroom too I believe, and still use many of the editing controls in the same way. You will have already lost something though - its not the same as starting from a RAW straight from a digital camera.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Helpful

eddyc

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 16:00
Thanks!

I suppose I was imagining the the scanner's sensor could capture RAW in the same way that a camera's one does.

But now that you point it out I suppose that even to get to that stage the film must have been developed to negative and so all of those "decisions" (the equivalent of in camera jpg processing) are already made by the person doing the developing.

I should look into getting high quality TIFFs though rather than jpeg. Thanks for the pointer. I didn't realise that would be an option.

I'll give that a go with the next roll. Thanks for the help.

McGregNi

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 16:26
If you have a computer it may be a good idea to consider your own scanner - I use an epson flatbed V500 model, very cost effective (it does documents also), and captures 48bit and at a high resolution also. You get software to control it to an extent, although there is 3rd party software available which gives many more controls to help in getting the the best scan possible.

You don't have to get prints made either - you can get a photo lab to just process your negs or slides and then scan them yourself. Then you'll have your shots digitally archived, you can edit them and make adjustments and also prepare files specifically to print, which you can send via the internet to an online lab or take a cd into a shop.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Mongoose

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 16:50
strictly speaking there's no reason why a scanner couldn't have a RAW format, but it's less necessary.

Scanners typically take red, green and blue measurements at all positions, removing one reason to need RAW as there is no de-mosaicing to do.

The other advantage to RAW is bit depth, which scanning to 48 bit TIFF will solve since that gives you 12 bits per channel, just like RAW.

This next suggestion I haven't tried so not sure how well it will work, but try scanning to 48bit TIFF and opening the result in RAWTherapee. Assuming RT can handle high bit rate TIFFs (I think it can), you should get the vast majority of the adjustments you normally get on a RAW file. RT allows editing of normal images as well as RAWs, though obviously you don't get the options which don't make sense for a normal image and you can only work with the data which is present.
you don't have to be mad to post here



but it does help

JAK

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 17:13
Link to using scanned raw CCD files from Vuescan:

http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc14.htm

I'd agree with the above however, the best practical file format to use from a scanner is a 48 bit tiff scanned at around 3200dpi. With the above you'd need to process the file in Vuescan to make it useable; it isn't a dng file.

John K
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 27/09/2013 - 17:15

McGregNi

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 17:21
That is an interesting option - the OP I think has been using a mini lab and getting digital versions, maybe onto CD, but it seems that home scanning may open up many more options and be cost effective too.

I certainly had not seen a RAW option for scan capture, but it presumably depends both on the model and the sophistication of the software? But are you saying that the file produced could not be read by standard image processing RAW software?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

eddyc

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 17:48
Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

Buying a dedicated scanner myself is certainly an interesting option. If I end up shooting a lot of film it might even end up being cheaper...

You are right though that I was initially talking about services like snappysnaps etc.

I'll find a place that will do TIFF instead of jpeg next time and give it a go in lightroom. That should be an interesting first step anyway.

dpm

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 18:17
why not get a slide copying attachment and use your dslr?

stevejcoe

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 19:02
My old Minolta scanner in combination with VueScan software has the option to save scans as tiff and RAW tiff. The latter option open with ACR

Regards Steve
Last Edited by stevejcoe on 27/09/2013 - 19:06

McGregNi

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 19:48
RAW tiff is something I've heard of before - its not a 'true' RAW though is it - I understand it is already rendered. Is this in fact what we were seeing on the software screen grab earlier?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Jonathan-Mac

Link Posted 27/09/2013 - 22:47
My Epson V500 can scan to several formats, including TIFF. This is a RAW file from a scanner and you will have similar post-processing options as available from RAW such as PEF from a DSLR.
Pentax hybrid user - Digital K3, film 645 and 35mm SLR and Pentax (&other) lenses adapted to Fuji X and Panasonic L digital
Fan of DA limited and old manual lenses

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/09/2013 - 00:23
Jonathan-Mac wrote:
My Epson V500 can scan to several formats, including TIFF. This is a RAW file from a scanner and you will have similar post-processing options as available from RAW such as PEF from a DSLR.

Sorry, you've lost me with that one - a TIFF is a RAW file ???
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Mongoose

Link Posted 28/09/2013 - 10:18
Actually most RAW files are TIFF under the hood, with some extra headers for additional metadata. TIFF is more of a container format really, lots of options for compression, bit depth and so on.
you don't have to be mad to post here



but it does help

Jonathan-Mac

Link Posted 28/09/2013 - 12:43
A RAW file is any file format that stores image data without using lossy compression. The source is unimportant.
Pentax hybrid user - Digital K3, film 645 and 35mm SLR and Pentax (&other) lenses adapted to Fuji X and Panasonic L digital
Fan of DA limited and old manual lenses
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