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CSC's

grambuch
Posted 02/10/2016 - 17:58 Link
This has to be a pretty general enquiry. I want to buy a camera for my daughter. She says she wants to take very good photos without specifying too exactly what that means. I am of course keen to share my enthusiasm for DSLR's, but she has read about the weight and size advantages of compact cameras. Would members consider using a CSC for wildlife, or for sport? Would they recommend a CSC with a viewfinder as well as an LCD screen? Is there a CSC which takes as wide a variety of lenses as a DSLR? Any thoughts both for and against will be much appreciated.
wvbarnes
Posted 02/10/2016 - 18:10 - Helpful Comment Link
I use a Pentax K3 with 12 -24 for wide angle, 18 - 135 for general use and 300 star with tele adapter for wildlife. A lot to carry around. My family bought me a little Canon 1" sensor (decent quality and F1.8 at wide angle) for portable use last Christmas. I find that great at night and for people/ grandkids/video. I hate the lack of viewfinder (they do a model with one). No long telephoto either. I much prefer the Pentax DSLR BUT recognise a small well made camera on my belt has its uses.

My observation of CSC's bigger than the current Pentax Q is the lenses are out of proportion to the camera. 4/3 format would at least reduce this a bit. APSC seems to leave you with the big lens on a tiny body of course. All permanently on sensor cameras seem battery hungry to date. I reckon a 1 inch sensor Q successor from Pentax (with an electronic viewfinder would work, but none to date. Perhaps others know of nearest alternative available and its merits?
JAK
Posted 02/10/2016 - 18:32 - Helpful Comment Link
The cheaper CSCs don't come with a viewfinder, you have to compose the image on the rear screen as you would with a compact camera or smartphone, so not so easy for wildlife or sports! Comparable CSCs to a DSLR are in a similar price bracket, approx £450 to £1500. Personally I prefer the optical viewfinder of a DSLR with the option of using the rear screen on the odd occasion.
Do you wish to share lenses? If so a K-50 or KS-2 might fit the bill and neither are that heavy, and cheaper than many decent CSCs! Pentax don't actually make a changeable lens CSC with a digital eye level viewfinder to my knowledge. The nearest are the K-01 and Pentax Q series, neither has an eye level viewfinder.
Perhaps an option is the XG-1 which is a fixed lens superzoom which is listed at around £250.
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.uk/en/IntroducingthePENTAXXG-1.html
The image quality won't be in the same league as a DSLR though but its menus and general use will be quite similar to a Pentax DSLR.
Otherwise it'll be a matter of looking to the likes of Fuji etc.
John K
Edited by JAK: 02/10/2016 - 18:38
johnriley
Posted 02/10/2016 - 19:52 - Helpful Comment Link
I think she needs to be a bit more specific as her needs could vary between a smartphone and a medium format camera....

What does she want to achieve? Perhaps a visit to a camera shop might help, so handle a wide variety of cameras.
Best regards, John
punkrockemo
Posted 02/10/2016 - 20:08 - Helpful Comment Link
Ameteur photographer devoted a good part of the magazine to the CSC V DSLR debate a few weeks ago. There did not appear to be any clear winner. Some points they made where

- AF Whilst the better peforming dslrs may do better CSC are not far behind and clossing the gap.
-Battery power, as mentioned above CSC's use battery more
- Lenses CSC's don't have the extensive range of of lenses that some DSLRS have.

It seems that it often thought that DSLRS will die off and CSC's take over but DSLRS seem to be hanging around and outselling CSC's. I have often thought about CSC and had a Micor four thirds camera for a while. It was enyable to use and the image quality was close to ASPC but did not get much use as i didnt have so many lenses as the DSLR. There is a good second hand market for DSLR lenses at the moment, CSC leneses are new and bargins harder to find, some systems like fuji have some nice lenses but they are pricey.
Edited by punkrockemo: 02/10/2016 - 20:09
bwlchmawr
Posted 02/10/2016 - 21:49 - Helpful Comment Link
I use both types.

The advantages of CCS cameras are many. I value the light weight bodies and lenses. A touch screen which allows accurate placing of the focus point is useful. Seeing focus and exposure in the viewfinder saves time. The silent electronic shutter on my Lumix is excellent. They are unobtrusive for street photography. Lenses are not a concern for me as I really only use standard zooms but there are dozens of m 4/3 lenses available.

DSLR's viewfinders are much nicer to use and you don't have to turn the camera on to assess a scene. A decent DSLR is, I think, much tougher: my little Canon M is built like a brick, but the Lumix feels a bit fragile. DSLRs are much bigger so have more hard buttons and switches; CSCs require more menu-diving. My DSLRs can shoot for days (literally) with one battery charge; CSCs most definitely cannot.

I much prefer using my K5 or K10 and the image quality is, I think, a bit better, but they're a pain in the shoulder, so, unless I'm going somewhere new (like I did this weekend) or photographing something special, I'll take one of the little cameras every time.

This probably doesn't help much, as I wouldn't like to be without either kind.
Best wishes,

Andrew

"These places mean something and it's the job of a photographer to figure-out what the hell it is."
Robert Adams
"The camera doesn't make a bit of difference.  All of them can record what you are seeing.  But, you have to SEE."
Ernst Hass
My website: http://www.ephotozine.com/user/bwlchmawr-199050 http://s927.photobucket.com/home/ADC3440/index
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78898196@N05
grambuch
Posted 03/10/2016 - 00:46 Link
Thanks Andrew, useful to read.
bwlchmawr
Posted 03/10/2016 - 07:12 - Helpful Comment Link
I forgot to add, a tilting screen would be very nice to have. I missed that facility using the K5 and there's no denying that live-view on DSLRs is a bit Neanderthal and clunky whereas switching between EVF and screen is seamless on my Lumix. Some pictures are just better seen and made on a screen.

Interestingly on a recent trip abroad I saw far more DSLRs in use than CSCs so they're far from dead, in fact, I reckon you get more for your money with entry level DSLRs than cheap CSCs.
Best wishes,

Andrew

"These places mean something and it's the job of a photographer to figure-out what the hell it is."
Robert Adams
"The camera doesn't make a bit of difference.  All of them can record what you are seeing.  But, you have to SEE."
Ernst Hass
My website: http://www.ephotozine.com/user/bwlchmawr-199050 http://s927.photobucket.com/home/ADC3440/index
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78898196@N05
Edited by bwlchmawr: 03/10/2016 - 07:14
petrochemist
Posted 03/10/2016 - 08:31 - Helpful Comment Link
Like Andrew I also use both.
I agree with everything he's said, but would add:
As the rear screen a EVF is well worthwhile as well (I ended up buying the optional one for my GF2).
For motorsports & airshows I find the DSLR (K7 or K5ii) is still preferable to my mirrorless bodies (G5, GF2) the gap may have reduced with the latest mirrorless bodies.

As well as the much touted weight advantage most mirrorless cameras are much more flexible with adapted lenses. I can use my old pentax lenses on multiple adapters giving a range of added features (one has an extra helicoid allowing closer focusing, one has a focal reducer making the lens 1 stop brighter & reducing the effective crop, one allows the lens to be tilted to change the plane of focus)
Mike
.
Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].FlickrWPFPanoramio
vic cross
Posted 03/10/2016 - 14:12 - Helpful Comment Link
As John K said why not The pentax bridge camera. When my grand daughter wanted to move from a compact she thought my DSLR's were to heavy. She was 12 at the time. SO we got her a bridge camera. (unfortunately not a Pentax at the time). Maybe not as good as a DSLR but they have from wide to telephoto lenses, are quite a bit lighter and are a good stepping stone.
CHEERS Vic.
Born again biker with lots of Pentax bits. Every day I wake up is a good day. I'm so old I don't even buy green bananas.
BruceStrachan
Posted 03/10/2016 - 19:59 - Helpful Comment Link
I have used many differant brands over the last few years ...trying them for a couple of weeks then selling them on.
The Q series are fun but fiddly.
Mx 1 is good but limited lens movement.
I preferred the lumix offerings the g6 is great and matched with the longer 140 mm zoom is a useful tool.
But it's about same size as the ks2...
The TZ71 is a good pocket camera with a EVF and a really good x 30 zoom lens.
I would try some from ebay see shat suits you...
Don't lose much reselling that way...
Cheers,

Bruce
grambuch
Posted 05/10/2016 - 21:12 Link
Thank you all for your advice.

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