Am I a Terrorist? Section 44 and the powers to be!

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SmutjeUK

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:02
Now that may sound real strange but it happened to me tonight and I am absolutely fuming but do not know what to do or how to handle the situation.
Here is whet happen:
I got commissioned to make pictures of a party of a new born in our local Royal British Legion. The people who hired me are Muslims by faith but this is not the problem as nearly all of them are in the navy as well.
It was a great party and I left at 1030h.
I only live across the road, so I as happily on my way with a bottle of PINK (Blossom Hill Rose Wine).
I had to use a walking path to get through to my house when suddenly I was approached by a couple of men that identified themselves as police officers. I checked their ID and was satisfied with it when I was told that I would be searched under ‘Section 44’!
I know a bit of the law and all my senses in this moment went on. I asked why but did not get any answer.
Next thing I know is an officer has my k-5 and goes through the pictures. I get questioned what and why I was where I was.
It all got a bit nasty with words and at the end I got my bag back with my camera and told to leave. I asked for an explanation but none was give.
Now I am home I find that my card has been formatted and all pictures are lost (also I will try a recovery program , plus I took some pictures (as usual) on the second card that I carry in the grip, so at least not all is lost)
I am still shaking and it still has not settled with me but what the f**** is wrong with this country.
I could understand if I would have taken pictures of anything sensitive but all I did was going home and all I had was a bottle of wine in my hands.
This post will also be forwarded to my MP as I would like to know if we start by now living in the wild west where everything goes.
I know this may sound political but it is not it is just a cry for ‘what the f*** is wrong’!
I could understand it if there would be a problem but just out of the blue?
All my pictures that I took have been deleted, who is paying for this?
Are freelancers now also freegame to the OB?
I never ever experienced anything like this and not only was it frightening it was degrading as well and I now do not know where to turn to.
Section 44….. in my eyes by now is pure state control over any human rights.
I know this sound real harsh and I probably will get a lot of stick (abuse) etc for what I am about to state but:
I feel raped (Please do not get this one wrong, I am not making a mockery out of it but being stripped of all rights for something you do not even know what you have done wrong is really being ……….. Sorry but I do not know what to say as so may feelings and emotions going right now though me and I just need a vent.
What to do? I called the club and told them what happen and I truly hope that no-one has to go through the same humiliation as I just did.
What about the pictures I took and that are gone because of some over jealous copper?
Sorry to bother you all with this but I just needed a vent as other ways I would die on a heard attack.
If I am out of order, just delete this thread , but I think something like this should be highlighted all over as it affects every photographer (amateur or professional) and it should not happen in a free county like ours!
Sorry
Kind regards
SmutjeUK

It's nice to be nice!

Pentax K-5 with D-GB4 Grip, to many lenses to mention by now (serious LBA by now), TC's, Lowepro Slingshot 300 AW, Manfrotto 028 & Redsnapper RS-283 with various Heads plus various Camera Clamps (I collect them). Pentax AF 360FGZ, Pentax AF 240FT, several Metz 45 CT-1 & 5 with stands and 'Blow Up' Soft Boxes, Flash Triggers, and various Macro gear.

RR

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:08
Did you get the PC's numbers ? An officer does not have the right to delete images even under a (misused) section 44.
My Flickr

johnriley

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:09
It's easy to understand your fury.

If you want to complain, do so through proper channels. It was illegal to try and delete your images.

Use a recovery program to recover your shots - they are probably salvageable despite the formatting.

Hope that helps with the practicalities, but your mood won't improve for a while I think.
Best regards, John

SmutjeUK

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:17
At the moment.... I am crying a bit as I feel in a way guilty even I knowe I did nothing wrong.
All I got is a piece of paper that informs me who has searched me and states that it was done under section 44. I got a name and number on the 'receipt' but I really feel humiliated.
Like I stated I will take this up with my local MP who is also a member of the club but I really feel like s**** at the moment.
I am sorry to bother you with it but my wife is at work and I just feel very vanuable at the moment and cant think straight.
Typing helps a bit as I can concentrate on something.
Sorry for the spelling mistakes.
Kind regards
SmutjeUK

It's nice to be nice!

Pentax K-5 with D-GB4 Grip, to many lenses to mention by now (serious LBA by now), TC's, Lowepro Slingshot 300 AW, Manfrotto 028 & Redsnapper RS-283 with various Heads plus various Camera Clamps (I collect them). Pentax AF 360FGZ, Pentax AF 240FT, several Metz 45 CT-1 & 5 with stands and 'Blow Up' Soft Boxes, Flash Triggers, and various Macro gear.

johnriley

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:20
You have had a bit of a shock so all quite understandable. I usually find that after a good night's sleep things can be put in better perspective.

Very sorry to hear what happened.
Best regards, John

fatspider

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:39
Oh dear, and people wonder why the police in this country get so much disrespect, the officers in question should be sacked, and their chief of police made to do the honourable thing and either shoot his own useless brains out or resign, because if he was doing his job properly his officers would be correctly trained.

Bernhard, my advice is sue the buggers for every penny you can get and involve as much of the press as you can. As john says, hopefully you will feel better in the morning but dont let this deter you from seeking out justice.
My Names Alan, and I'm a lensaholic.
My PPG link
My Flckr link

Smeggypants

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:43
I would be fuming.

When you are ready you should complain to the police and sue them for criminal damage. Deleting your pictures is criminal damage.


p.s hope you can recover them
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

pentaxian450

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:48
Smutje,

I'm really sorry for you. Your (bad) experience shows that terrorist have won quite a few battles. Your government is slowly taking your freedom away so they can say they keep you safe. I feel very sorry for the lost of freedom your country is experiencing. Hopefully, our government (Canada) won't take your country as an example as to what to do to fight terrorism.

Now, if you need a shoulder to cry on, you're welcome to come and visit me.

Good luck!
Yves (another one of those crazy Canucks)

fatspider

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:48
And once you recover them transfer them to the second memory card, then you can still claim the images were lost and really hit them where it hurts, pull out all the stops and demand the officers are suspended for incompetence.
My Names Alan, and I'm a lensaholic.
My PPG link
My Flckr link

Unlocker

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 00:54
Can I also add my disgust and my weight to the 'sue them for every penny you get' brigade.

These officers have broken the law deleting your photos and should have the full weight of the law brought down on them.

Most sincerely hope you can salvage the photos and then use them in a court case against them.

Glad I wasn't there, as I'm sure that I would have got arrested instead I'm having a beer, then another one for you.

Please do not apologise for your post. You've done nothing wrong, we can only apologise for not being there to back you up.

Please, enjoy your wine tonight, then kick some arse tomorrow, we are behind you all the way.

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Smeggypants

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 01:03
pentaxian450 wrote:
Smutje,

I'm really sorry for you. Your (bad) experience shows that terrorist have won quite a few battles. Your government is slowly taking your freedom away so they can say they keep you safe.

After the 7-7 false flag a woman on the street was interviewed and said she'd "gladly give up her liberty for freedom" - unbelievable!!!!

or did she says she would "give up her freedom for liberty"



Quote:
I feel very sorry for the lost of freedom your country is experiencing. Hopefully, our government (Canada) won't take your country as an example as to what to do to fight terrorism.

Now, if you need a shoulder to cry on, you're welcome to come and visit me.

Good luck!

The governments' are the terrorists. They are the one's scaremongering as much as possible.

The amount of lies our government tells us here is disgusting.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

SmutjeUK

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 01:23
Many thank for all your sympathy. I have (as usual for me on a Saturday) Football and I am usually see some good friends of mine that work for the 'old bill'. Maybe I can get some advise from them as I know that some really care about community policing.
At the moment it is just the shock of being in the middle of it. I am ever so glad that I took up an insurance that covers me for legal cost, and having just called the 24h hotline it seems that I am covered, I just have to be careful what I publicise as I may fall foul of some other stupid laws.
This country seems to be ruled by police and lawyers and the rest is just left to fend for thenself.
I feel that we need something like a union that EVERY photographer can join.
I tried in the past to join the NUJ but as a new starter and free lancer there is no chance.
The UK becomes in my eyes more and more restrictive and if you belong to a minority you got no chance at all.
Diplomas count more then talent by now and Big Brother is watching all over you.
It seems that as soon as you try to make a living as a photographer you are either a pervert or a terrorist.
Something has to be done or we all will be just classed as one of the above.
Security is OK but getting this far is well over the top.
Maybe even a register for any photographer (if they want to) without the restrictions that the NUJ puts on you?
I don't know what to suggest. It all seems so stupid. It seems as soon as you lift a camera you get classed in the 'pervert' section, even if it is only of documentary value what you are shooting just because someone walks in to your picture.
Think about it, you are in to street photography and then officer XYZ takes you to the side under section 44.
You will have a job of explaining why you have shot pictures of strangers without their permission to do so.
I hate to say it but I think there should be something that every photographer can join just to make sure that you are a serious photographer without any bad intentions in mind.
But how would you control and prove this one?
I know I am hurt at the moment but I really believe something has to be done, or we will loose all the freedom.
Disagree with me and I am more then happy to put my point across without flaming or hurting anyone.
We are all grown ups and it should be possible to discuss this without anyone being put down for their views (not that this has happen, but it may be that others disagree and it could get a bit out of hand).
Everyone has a different view, and to be honest I do not know at the moment where my one is as I am on the side that has been hurt.
At the moment I do not know what to think but one thing is for sure, it can not go on as it is. Somewhere ha to be a limit. How to implement it...... I do not know.
Sorry for buzzing all over but my mind is racing and I can not rest.
I just hope that talking to some people I know in the law tomorrow may give me some pointers of what to do.
Kind regards
SmutjeUK

It's nice to be nice!

Pentax K-5 with D-GB4 Grip, to many lenses to mention by now (serious LBA by now), TC's, Lowepro Slingshot 300 AW, Manfrotto 028 & Redsnapper RS-283 with various Heads plus various Camera Clamps (I collect them). Pentax AF 360FGZ, Pentax AF 240FT, several Metz 45 CT-1 & 5 with stands and 'Blow Up' Soft Boxes, Flash Triggers, and various Macro gear.

SmutjeUK

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 01:53
just seen all the post that came in when I was trying to type the last thread.
Many thanks to all of you. At least it makes me feel a bit better and supported.
I know that not all of the 'old bill' are the same and as I said I know a few good one which I will see tomorrow at the football, but it still hurts.
Like I mentioned in the original post, in a way I feel raped (PLEASE all your females out there, I do not mean to minimise the word, but feel that I now know what it may feels like even I never could really experience the hurt for victims of this particular crime. I just mean it as a figure of speech as I really do not know how else to express how I feel at the moment. Please forgive me for using this word as I do not mean to diminish the crime in any way).
It is nice to know that you are all out there. I just wish that there would be a solution to the whole as it seems to get worse and worse in this country. In my eyes it seems that as soon as you are in a public place and pick up your camera you are a target for all sorts of accusations.
Worse of all, people get so aggressive straight away that you rarely have the chance to explain yourself.
The whole country seems to be thinking that everyone is a pervert or a criminal.
Why do I wear a HigViz Vest with PHOTOGRAPHER printed on it if I take pictures in public places? Its all to do with telling people that I am there and that they know what I am doing.
Funny, but even the 'old bill' have told me that this is a good way to make sure people know what I am doing.
But then I get tonight and I wish I could just crawl in a mouse-hole as I felt I was the one who was in the wrong.
I just wonder now what it will be like in one or two years if something like this is allowed to continue.
I am ever so sorry to bother you all with this but it really helps me as I can just vent my anger and disgust for the officers that well overstepped their mark.
can I fight it? I do not know as being a start up freelance I can not join the NUJ and will have no backing of any union or any official recognition.
Kind regards
SmutjeUK

It's nice to be nice!

Pentax K-5 with D-GB4 Grip, to many lenses to mention by now (serious LBA by now), TC's, Lowepro Slingshot 300 AW, Manfrotto 028 & Redsnapper RS-283 with various Heads plus various Camera Clamps (I collect them). Pentax AF 360FGZ, Pentax AF 240FT, several Metz 45 CT-1 & 5 with stands and 'Blow Up' Soft Boxes, Flash Triggers, and various Macro gear.

stub

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 08:52
Its certainly a shock for you. Not a situation many would like to find themselves in. I would certainly report this incident to the Police..If only to assertain the identity of the officers..
K-1Gripped K-1 ungripped K-5ii K7 Various lenses

Stuart..

techno-terminator

Link Posted 22/01/2011 - 09:07
As well as all the advice up thread I would also get the folk who commissioned your work last night to make a formal complaint - these pictures [ as far as they are concerned] can never be re-taken - they have also lost something .

Please also contact your local paper - either free or paid for - if not both.

Emphasise that the card was reformatted by the Police [ clearly they didn't know what they were doing - so should not have done that ]

Make sure that you get everything covered .

The way you were treated is shameful
let the education continue

proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
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