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Af 360 fgz help

derek897
Posted 17/04/2015 - 23:39 Link
Hi. I've had this flash unit for 2 years now and I still don't know how to use it properly. I know how to use it wirelessly but don't know how to adjust the power of the flash. I would like to learn and start using it more but at the min am struggling to work it out. Any help will be appreciated.
Derek
I know what i like, If not always why.
McGregNi
Posted 18/04/2015 - 06:08 - Helpful Comment Link
Flash power settings depend on the operating mode ... If you are using P-TTL auto-flash exposure mode, then it is the flash system itself that determines the actual flash power that is discharged for each shot. This is based on calculations made instantly from the pre-flash light reflected back to the camera, and it also knows the aperture and ISO as well. In this case, you have some control over the output with Flash Compensation settings, both on the flashgun and the cameras ... This is set in 'stops' of compensation in a range of -2 to plus 1 stops.

The other common mode is manual, and the difference here is that the system is not measuring reflectance back from the subject ... Output is set as a fixed power level related to full power in ratios, eg 1/2 , 1/4, 1/32nd etc. You are not' compensating' for a measured output, so this is not 'Flash compensation'.

Both these methods of control are made using the main dial and select button on the flash ... They will be available appropriately as you change into each flash mode.

There is one more mode still useful on todays cameras, 'Auto-flash' A mode. This uses the flashes own light sensor to measure output required, and is especially helpful when using manual non-coupled lenses, because the system is told the aperture and ISO directly by the user. In this case, power adjustments are made by 'tricking' the flash into thinking that that camera is set differently ...eg, camera is set to ISO 100, but you dial in ISO 400 on the flash ... This will produce 2 stops less light than the system measures as needed.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 18/04/2015 - 06:17
Daronl
Posted 18/04/2015 - 09:41 Link
I have had this flash for two years or more, buying it whilst enroute in Asia and having had a Metz "lifted" and whilst a have had consistently good results i have basically only used it in auto mode.

It seems "much ado about nothing" given what appears to be a "user hostlie" interface with host of technical features that are a litlle unweildy.

Having chased it up on various sites to ensure I was doing it justice it really did puzzle me that whilst it had this wide array of features and functions it wouldn't swivel and so far I have not found away of cancelling or adjusting the auto time out afterwhich the flash resets to default so you hace to reset eveything which is a real pain.

It has been universally panned ( eg; http://extreme-macro.co.uk/pentax-af360fgz-flash/) but after Nigel's excellent post I may be doing it an injustice.

So maybe if the timeout / reset issue can be overcome then it is a better proposition than I thought ; any ideas how to overcome this singly most infuriating problem.

Thanks Nigel for an excellent technical description of the operating modes and maybe you can advise on the problem above,






McGregNi wrote:
Flash power settings depend on the operating mode ... If you are using P-TTL auto-flash exposure mode, then it is the flash system itself that determines the actual flash power that is discharged for each shot. This is based on calculations made instantly from the pre-flash light reflected back to the camera, and it also knows the aperture and ISO as well. In this case, you have some control over the output with Flash Compensation settings, both on the flashgun and the cameras ... This is set in 'stops' of compensation in a range of -2 to plus 1 stops.

The other common mode is manual, and the difference here is that the system is not measuring reflectance back from the subject ... Output is set as a fixed power level related to full power in ratios, eg 1/2 , 1/4, 1/32nd etc. You are not' compensating' for a measured output, so this is not 'Flash compensation'.

Both these methods of control are made using the main dial and select button on the flash ... They will be available appropriately as you change into each flash mode.

There is one more mode still useful on todays cameras, 'Auto-flash' A mode. This uses the flashes own light sensor to measure output required, and is especially helpful when using manual non-coupled lenses, because the system is told the aperture and ISO directly by the user. In this case, power adjustments are made by 'tricking' the flash into thinking that that camera is set differently ...eg, camera is set to ISO 100, but you dial in ISO 400 on the flash ... This will produce 2 stops less light than the system measures as needed.

Daronl
McGregNi
Posted 18/04/2015 - 09:54 - Helpful Comment Link
Thanks Daroni, very kind of you .... perhaps I could make my post even more excellent by correcting a mistake to start with ! I said that the flash compensation range was -2 to +1 stops .... in fact on the flash guns this is -3 to +1 stops. The -2 limit applies to the on-camera flash compensation setting (accesed from the four-way controller flash button). When using the pop-up flash then this camera FC setting would apply to the pop-up unit, and any flashgun set FC would apply to the flashgun output (in wireless operation).

If using the gun on the hotshoe then the camera and flashgun compensation settings are summed together to produce a total FC amount.

You can disable the 'auto power off' function, and this will keep your settings while the gun remains on .... I think it may default back to P-TTL mode whenever its turned off ? But anyway, while you're using it you can cancel the time out-this way ...

1. Put the 'setting switch' into the upper position (this is the switch on the far right that selects which row of buttons are active)

2. Press the 'light' button button for 2 or more seconds ... SL1 or SL 2 will indicate

3. Press 'Mode' button

4. Press the selector button (S - the button inside the dial) until you see PH2 dispayed.

5. Press the 'light' button again.

Let us know it this works please ! (Fingers Crossed )
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 18/04/2015 - 10:05
derek897
Posted 18/04/2015 - 10:45 Link
Thanks Nigel. That's a very comprehensive explanation. I knew you were the go to guy for flash questions (flash man)
I generally use the camera in manual mode, and there have been occasions where I would have liked a little fill light but couldn't work out why I was getting so much flash. I couldn't increase shutter speed to cut back on light and ended up with a smaller aperture to try and combat the flash but that usually messed with what I was trying achieve. Back when I had a different make camera I had a Nissin speedlite that was easier to control but didn't have the range of ability that the af360 seems to have.
To be honest I only understand some of what you are saying. I'm going to have to have a play with it to try and get used to the controls and interface. I'll post some results and ask again if I get stuck.
Derek
I know what i like, If not always why.
McGregNi
Posted 18/04/2015 - 11:58 - Helpful Comment Link
Flash Man ?? Sounds like the latest superhero! Well, I love to use Pentax flash and I find it a great system. There's a great deal of experience out here on the forum of course ... I just aim to try and express things in a practical way thats digestable.

The issue you mention with shutter speed and having to close down the aperture, sounds like a High Speed Sync situation. This mode will allow you to set the faster speeds you need to 'cut back the light' while controlling flash with aperture and ISO. Set 'HS' on the slider along the bottom of the flashgun panel. I'd use manual exposure to get the ambient light right with the shutter speed. You only have P-TTL mode in High Speed Sync shooting as this requires measured light output, so you will control your flash output with flash compensation adjustments.

HSS will not work off-camera when using the built-in flash as the trigger. Off-camera HSS needs a second HSS capable flash on the camera as well. HSS will work fine with th Pentax gun mounted on the hotshoe, or using the P-TTL sync cable accessories.

There's a sticky thread at the top of this flash forum about HSS with some practical examples from me, plus of course MattMatics guide thread about P-TTL and the flash system also.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 18/04/2015 - 12:08
smudge
Posted 18/04/2015 - 13:04 Link
McGregNi wrote:
Thanks Daroni, very kind of you .... perhaps I could make my post even more excellent by correcting a mistake to start with ! I said that the flash compensation range was -2 to +1 stops .... in fact on the flash guns this is -3 to +1 stops. The -2 limit applies to the on-camera flash compensation setting (accesed from the four-way controller flash button). When using the pop-up flash then this camera FC setting would apply to the pop-up unit, and any flashgun set FC would apply to the flashgun output (in wireless operation).

If using the gun on the hotshoe then the camera and flashgun compensation settings are summed together to produce a total FC amount.

You can disable the 'auto power off' function, and this will keep your settings while the gun remains on .... I think it may default back to P-TTL mode whenever its turned off ? But anyway, while you're using it you can cancel the time out-this way ...

1. Put the 'setting switch' into the upper position (this is the switch on the far right that selects which row of buttons are active)

2. Press the 'light' button button for 2 or more seconds ... SL1 or SL 2 will indicate

3. Press 'Mode' button

4. Press the selector button (S - the button inside the dial) until you see PH2 dispayed.

5. Press the 'light' button again.

Let us know it this works please ! (Fingers Crossed )

I believe this feature was only available on the 540, not the 360. That, and the lack of swivel, was the reason I upgraded to the 540. Perhaps it is available on the new version?
Regards, Philip
Edited by smudge: 18/04/2015 - 13:15
McGregNi
Posted 18/04/2015 - 13:38 Link
Thanks Philip, I'm sure you could be right .... The flashes share the same control layout I believe, but of course the software functions can differ, so I am wrong to assume that the method applies to both. If anyone can check an af360 fgz and confirm that would be great.

I assumed that Derek was referring to the older model 360, not the latest WR II series ?? That was why I mentioned 'auto' mode (often called auto-thrystor) .... Unfortunately the new flashes have lost this, which is a pity I think as it works very well. I mean to get a manual for the new models, but you'd think with improved electronics over time there would be a quicker and more intuitive way to apply custom settings like this.

I must say though that I do see the multiple button and switches controls a positive thing ... Just as I find the physical levers and switches on the K7 an advantage over menu based settings, so I also find the physicality's of operating switches and buttons on the flash unit a good thing.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 18/04/2015 - 13:42
derek897
Posted 18/04/2015 - 14:57 Link
[quote:
I assumed that Derek was referring to the older model 360, not the latest WR II series ?? .[/quote]

Yes its the older model I have.
I know what i like, If not always why.
McGregNi
Posted 18/04/2015 - 18:31 Link
Ok thanks Derek, let us know how you get on with the flash modes and power adjustments .
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 18/04/2015 - 18:33
derek897
Posted 21/04/2015 - 09:41 Link
Ok so i finally got a chance to try this out this morning, not the best of subjects i know but it works for me as i can see what the adjustments i made did with regards to the end result.
#1- no flash
Comment Image


#2- flash as i would have normally tried to use it
Comment Image


#3- flash used using advice from Nigel to make adjustments
Comment Image


The idea for me was to not have a silhouette, which is what i have in the 1st shot, 2nd completely blown and the 3rd is what i wanted to get, which is an unblown sky, while keeping some rust detail in the metal. Done in hss mode with - compensation on flash combined with a much higher shutter speed than the normal 1/180th id normally have tried to use.

Just want to say a serious thanks to you Nigel, thats been a great help in trying to understand some of the workings of this flash unit. Once i get used to using it in this mode and become more comfortable with it, i can see myself putting it to proper use.
Thanks again

Derek
I know what i like, If not always why.
McGregNi
Posted 21/04/2015 - 18:18 - Helpful Comment Link
Thank you for the thank you! I'm really glad that it's worked for what you were wanting to achieve. The differences are clear to see, and its great that you've posted those examples there as a demonstration. It's a very interesting and creative example of HSS use.

The only point I'd add here for anyone following is to remember that for HSS you can't use P mode... This won't allow you to set shutter time value shorter than 1/180th ...M mode is best I find, and offers the most intuitive way to keep control of your ambiant exposure with 'shutter speed' without affecting your aperture and ISO figures.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 21/04/2015 - 18:20

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